BINGO!!!

How long odds would these two be in a "normal" year- and we're discussing them as legitimate contenders to hit the board?!?!?

Yeah, and how terrible is Court Vision that even in this impossibly slow year of Derby contenders I still think he's too slow to plod up to the top five.

Man, this is an awful Derby. I've just defended the chances of Tomcito and Adriano in the past ten minutes.[/QUOTE]

:D ...I feel the same way. Last week I emailed my friend (back me up BT)to tell him to take a look at Monba and Adriano, now we're in a Tomcito discussion, though I admit I glossed over his record and dismissed him off hand without really thinking about it. Now he's coming back with Salute the Sarge- how sad is this bunch. Meanwhile, I still can't get the "Giacomo-esque" Court Vision out of the trifecta.

Please stop with the Tomcito, its hard to even read this garbage.

The horse has NO CHANCE to do anything, hes a complete crow. Tomcito is so slow he makes Court Vision look fast. Court Vision would beat Tomcito 10 out of 10 times

Canonero II had beaten 3 and ups at 10f in February (I think, maybe March) in Venezuela, a Northern Hemisphere country where the breeding season is the same as it is here. And as far as I recall, he had not won any kind of stakes race at the time he flew here. Tomcito is a Northern Hemisphere foal, who was running vs. Southern Hemisphere 3yos (he was officially a 3yo by their rules) as a 2yo in actual age. And he won 2/3 of their Triple Crown, in essence the Kentucky Derby and Belmont, despite being 6 months less mature than his competitors.

We in this country frequently see South American 3yos brought up here to race in the middle of their 3yo season, only to be considered as 4yos and weighted as such in handicaps. And many of them win races anyway - Einstein was a 3yo in fact the first time he won the GP Turf H (G1).

You can see what was behind and in front of him in the other thread we went in depth.

Court Vision is pretty much a crow too though. I say they dead heat for 7th in the Derby

Be a good future bet Court V-vs-Tomshito. I would bet CV and be 100% confident.

It's soo sad of a bunch that i would be surprised if Big Brown wins. The field is full of sub-par 3YO's who have racked up a bunch of 3rd and 4ths for earnings. HANDS DOWN the best year to take a shot with a filly if you've got one (owners that is).
And yes i'm on the Sarge for the Lexington, i honestly believe people are looking into Tomcito's 3rd by 12 lengths to Big Brown a little too much.

-bt-

:confused: Totally flatulent effort ... And yes I was disappointed ... :rolleyes:

I was at Kee today, and he looked pretty good in the paddock, although like a turf horse to my eyes. The connections were very excited before the race. I saw them leaving after the day was over, the yellow Tomicito hats no longer in strong evidence. That might be it for that dream.

Mott's horse looked great in the paddock, eager to have at it, professional, and seems to look like a horse on the upswing, with improvement left.

I think Baffert was himself surprised.

Everybody else looked pretty unimpressive to me, actually. I went only to go to the paddock and see the horses, and I was disappointed with much of what I saw in person. Weird year. It's like they are 2 months behind, developmentally (small, not muscled/impressive) - they didn't look like horses two weeks from the Derby. Of course, this is the B team.

Tomshito

Mumtaz, maybe you looked at Tomshitos pony. Hes certainly not a good looking horse, nor a good horse.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him running for 15000 a year from now.

Why wait a year

There's still races to be won in Peru! Maybe a shot at the Belmont. If none in this crop wants 10f, who's gonna want 12?

How Tomcito was made a favorite in that race, at 8.5 with the finish where it was going to be, is yet another great mystery of this year's preps.

If he won impressively yesterday he may have been relatively short odds in the derby too.

Tomshito had a 1 in a million chance to win, however when PG1985 came with his endorsement it sealed his fate. At that point the connections should have been looking to scratch.

How he went off as chalk defies logic

Um ... let's rephrase and say, "muscled, shiny, tucked"