Derby Trail Forums - Doubling the DWC to 12 million, WOW!!!

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- - Doubling the DWC to 12 million, WOW!!! (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21289)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

But that still isn't comparable to Godolphin and racing. Miller and Bud battle for exclusivity at sporting events. You think if Sheik Mo wanted his beer ( I know..bad analogy) at the UC, he wouldn't just quadruple the highest offer from Miller or Bud and we'll all be drinking Mo's Brew? No one else is capable of that in the beer industry, let alone the horse biz. I don't think you have an appreciation for exactly how much money he does have.

I probably don't, never really thought on that scale, but some are stating that he is destroying the industry, when in fact, it is the industry that is destroying itself and a few select helping move forward with the destruction, he is the head kingpin in the destruction, but he is doing more for horse racing then the others are, at least from what I can tell. It is very lopsided as far as where the money comes from.

Look, it is a bad cycle, any time you have uneven power, it leads to conversations like this, both hatred and love, opinions from both sides, with essentially no right or wrong, no solution or plan

Sooner or later, it will even out, 10 years ago, he wasn't in the American industry, who is to say that in 10 years he will be around....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

That is so true...We can't control what Godolphin does, but we sure are doing a lousy job with the things we can control

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. Invests in breeding? He's not investing, he's maniacally trying to buy ALL the breeding. And of course there will never be a decent 3yo that sees a handicap season as long as Darley continues in their current fashion.

He's also created the disgusting nouveau scenario of the instant purchase of any young horse, or even any decent looking older horse, which will completely ruin the game for fans. Thanks to Mo, you can look forward to a 'Rollerball' style corporate game shortly where Darley, Godolphin, IEAH and Team Valor basically have bought any decent horse. There will be a few holdouts that don't need the money, but most operations or owners will be compelled to sell.

There is in fact a rumor from credible sources that Darley approached IEAH/Pompa Friday night with a $30 million offer for Big Brown. IEAH has a huge war chest and would rather campaign forward at this point, but you can see what you're dealing with. And of course IEAH themselves threw $2MM at Pompa for 75% of Big Brown off the maiden win last summer...

It's not 'sporting', as Sh. Mo's shills love to claim, just as it wasn't sporting to retire Bernadini. And $12MM for a single race is of course just obscene and garish and typical of the way he operates believing that throwing money at everything assures some kind of 'class'. It's actually embarrassing. What pleasure he can take when whichever American-bred juvenile he bought smashes the career earnings record in his 7th career start with $11,000,000 accrued from the World Cup win on the heels of his wins in the previous year's UAE Derby and 3 stages of Mahktoum Challenges...

Steve,

Id like to believe that last years insane spending by the Sheikh was an anomaly and that seeing his Darley stud so far behind main rivals Coolmore, wanted to rectify that and wanted to do it quickly, hence the purchases of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Authorised, Manduro, Admire Moon etc etc..

From the Guardian article below, he's spent roughly one billion pounds (>1Billion Dollars) on Bloodstock in the past year. I just cant for the life of me see that he can continue this aggressive tactic for more than another year.

Looking at it over here, The Sheikh basically owns the top 4 prospects for the 2000 Guineas - New Approach, Ravens Pass, Ibn Kaldoun and Faat Company. They are all splendid stallion prospects but all else things being equal, they are all successful, i cant see them all retiring to stud...

I was just looking back at a thread i started a while back on the top 10 Godolphin horses ever, it is interesting to note that by my estimate 8 of those wouldnt be there if they had retired at 3. In the late 90s early 00's they were great for racing their top older horses through into their 4th 5th a 6th years. But I suppose therein lies the problem. Very few breeders want slowly maturing types that only really became top class as a 4 or 5 year old.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/horserac...269381,00.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy

Id like to believe that last years insane spending by the Sheikh was an anomaly and that seeing his Darley stud so far behind main rivals Coolmore, wanted to rectify that and wanted to do it quickly, hence the purchases of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Authorised, Manduro, Admire Moon etc etc.

Don't know if you saw but they already scooped up the stud rights to Pyro which coupled with the attempt to get the stud rights to Big Brown doesn't exactly give the impression that last year was a one year anomaly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

yeah i heard about the purchase of pyro and on this thread re: big brown.. I still think it will take some effort to match last years buying spree though..

Just thinking about this further. Darley really want to be where Coolmore have been over the past number of years.

For years Coolmore were constantly criticised for retiring their horses at the end of their 3 year old career. As Coolmore's quality of stallion increased, it reached a level where it was so good, that even with champions that they had, it was in their interest to race on with them. It has worked in their favour with Dylan Thomas and High Chapparal 2 in particular that benefited from. From a breeding perspective I believe that Darley are where Coolmore were at the end of the 90s, but it will have to get to a stage where it is in their interest to race their horses past 3. With the amount of money Darley have invested though, they could reach that stage sooner rather than later..

Everything that Godolphin ran last Sat was "older" including Literato and Creachadoir, both nice horses. I am not sure why they buy US horses and retire them while going on with Euros they buy. Maybe it's because there are more opportunities to stick it to Coolmore while running on grass-HK, Singapore, Australia etc

I don't think that early retirements are "sporting" and agree that they are bad for the game. What I said was "sporting" was putting up $22m for one day of racing, plus bearing the cost of shipping horses and transporting of human connections all over the globe to attend. Factor in payrolls and maintainance etc how much did Saturday cost? Probably 3 or 4 times what a BC costs before worrying about purses. Oh yeah, and BC screws up everything they touch. I wouldn't trust them to ship my luggage, much less my horse! DWC staff moved horses and humans through Dubai last week efficiently. I've spoken to several who were there and other than delays because of construction, things went beautifully.

I see no way to stop Sh. Mo from buying what he wants, other than for owners of horses he wants to say "no." Mrs. Valando did, IEAH did. It can happen. The man is a walking money pit, and most of it comes from real estate, NOT OIL. The price per gallon has little influence on him. His money however is very welcome through the industry.
The breeder with a nice yearling, the pinhooker with a nice 2yo, the owner of a recent maiden winner- they WANT to hear that phone call come in! It is their livelihood. That call can mean a life changing moment. As FANS and/or handicappers, we are not part of this game. While our money fuels it, we're in it but NOT OF IT. Just as the main office of the Yankees doesn't ask the bleacher creatures their opinions on trades, the horseplayers are not a factor in the decision to sell horses.

That post is just disgusting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Kinda stifling in here on this subject, if you don’t toe the line and fall in with the crowd on this issue. You either must subscribe to the idea that Sheik Mo is single-handedly destroying the game, or you’re called out by the host as perpetuating “utterly ridiculous” ideas. Given the number of truly ridiculous ideas put forth on here that is truly an ignoble honor.

I not a shill and don’t agree with everything that is done by Sheik Mo and associates, but some of the arguments put forth against him seem like a stretch and somewhat hypocritical.

If he brings Happy Boy to America I might go MMSC for a day or three and break out pom poms.

If he decides he wants to burry him in Europe on turf though .... that will be reason # 263,845 to hate them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbYyBKzBTo0 to see Happy Boy (video quality not super) Surely they arent that stupid to go the Asiatic Boy route with this horse..

I don't know man...

I fear they are that stupid.

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Originally Posted by cmorioles

For $12 million this year, what other great horses would have entered?

grasshopper...commentator....

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Originally Posted by jcs11204

grasshopper...commentator....

heatseeker, tiago, perfect drift

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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

heatseeker, tiago, perfect drift

perfect drift?

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Originally Posted by letswastemoney

perfect drift?

you'd have to understand the lack of psychology involved.

I don't think it's fair to blame Sheik Mo (much as I would like to), because no one is forcing people to sell their horses to him, and he's pretty clear about why he's buying them (isn't Pyro continuing to race under his current silks until the end of his career? It's not like the Sheik is buying him to race him). But he offers a ton of money, so can you blame people without that much money for selling? We can complain about being unsporting all we want, but the only way anyone will pay any attention to what the fans say is if the gambling ones all stopped gambling to protest early retirement of top horses, and that's just not going to happen, because I think most serious horseplayers are gamblers first and racing fans second (which is perfectly fair). In the end, I think it will have to come down to regulation- the Jockey Club saying a horse can't breed before age 5, or limiting the number of foals (like brian mentioned) but that's not likely to happen either, because fandom is of no importance to this game. It's about the money, from top to bottom, and fans don't bring in any to an owner, breeder, or anyone directly connected to the individual horse. Sucks, to be sure, but it's not fair to blame Sheik Mo for taking advantage of a system already in place.

I cannot see how the JC can instutute a rule limiting books. It's a restraint of trade issue.
I do find it disheartening that so few owners of racehorses care to stand them at stud. I realize that it's very expensive and risky but in many cases you are "out" pretty early with a top prospect. I was no fan of the "Slew Crew" but I sure admire their loyalty to Slew. Similarly, owners like deKwiatkowski were rewarded for their loyalty to Danzig etc. Over the decades those to horses were worth more than even the Sheikh is offering. In most cases (not all) the owners are wealthy enough that absorbing the riskswouldn't be all that hard. If they sell, they have the option to sell only a percentage. They they have Sh. Mo as a partner and he has a pretty strong broodmare band with which to support a stallion that you also own. I have no idea if Sh. Mo would work that way but other operations do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

AJ

I apologize if I gave too critical and strongly-worded a reply, but I'll argue that it's not 'stifling in here' on this topic. We have a very real problem in North American racing thanks to Sheik Mo, and it very well may be impossible to stem the tide.

I'm curious what arguments put forth against Darley are a stretch or hypocritical? What I found difficult to justify is the notion that Mo deserves an ounce of thanks or iota of recognition for anything that constitutes noble conduct or fair play.

And it isn't that I have no appreciation for the Doobies.. Mo's own brother, (Sh. Hamdam/Shadwell), operates like a gentleman and sportsman with an eye on contributing to the game on a worldwide basis and can be applauded for the way he runs his operation. It's just that we're getting way too much Mo...