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-   -   Bless You George Washington... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17715)

Danzig 10-29-2007 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot
If someone takes a great-performing horse off the track at three and puts him into the shed, they are greedy bastards.

If they take the non-useful horse out of the shed and put the good race horse back on the track to continue to race, they are greedy bastards.

If a horse isn't a top fav for a race he shouldn't be in there.

Fields are too short because everyone is afraid of being beat and pulls their horse. We deserve better - put those longer shots back in there.

If a horse breaks down, it's the connection's fault - they knew the horse was at risk.

Or it's the fault of the dirt. Or the poly. Or the turf. Or the breeding. Or drug abuse.

This sport is so confusing.

will all that fit in a 'nutshell'?

ArlJim78 10-29-2007 05:05 PM

It looks to be just a slap at US racing.

as far as the drugs issue, okay yes thats a valid one that we have to deal with, and maybe we aren't the example for the world. but the event that prompted his comment was the breakdown of a European horse, so I don't get the tie in to drugs.

and as far as the surface goes, advocating polytrack for all future BC's, can he actually be making the leap that using polytrack for the BC will guarantee no breakdowns will occurr? is he implying that there are no breakdowns over there on polytrack? and is polytrack safer than turf? if so why don't they run all the big european races on poly for safety? if its like he says and polytrack "separates the men from the boys" then why don't they lead the way?

as most people know on here I think polytrack might be safer in the long run, but a breakdown can occur anytime on any surface.

why should we take these comments seriously? I'm guessing he would have had nothing to say had George pulled off an upset and won the thing.

Riot 10-29-2007 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
will all that fit in a 'nutshell'?

What would we talk about if we all thought alike? ;)

George was beautiful - loved his face.

Danzig 10-29-2007 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot
What would we talk about if we all thought alike? ;)

George was beautiful - loved his face.

well, on this issue you and i would be talking about those who didn't agree with us...

and he was a beauty.

brockguy 10-29-2007 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
We will not see top-notch Aussies in America at the end of October because of the Spring Carnival; shipping Asian horses here at that time is tricky because of the Hong Kong races six weeks later, and with the dirt races being conducted on a synthetic surface next year, you probably eliminate the top Japanese dirt horses.

It's a great thought, though; I'd love to see more international participation here for the Breeders' Cup, as we see in Dubai and Hong Kong's international series.

as usual, youre spot on.. i suppose one problem with the Japanese is that if they do travel, they have to travel for either big purses (ie Dubai) or huge prestige (ie Europe). They see Europe and in particular, the Arc as the holy grail of racing and subsidise horses trying to achieve that goal. The Breeders Cup is not held in the same regard. Do the Breeders Cup even have a PR guy like Ascot's Nick Smith who goes around the world trying to get connections to race??

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
as usual, youre spot on.. i suppose one problem with the Japanese is that if they do travel, they have to travel for either big purses (ie Dubai) or huge prestige (ie Europe). They see Europe and in particular, the Arc as the holy grail of racing and subsidise horses trying to achieve that goal. The Breeders Cup is not held in the same regard. Do the Breeders Cup even have a PR guy like Ascot's Nick Smith who goes around the world trying to get connections to race??

Byk

Riot 10-29-2007 06:59 PM

Jay Hoveday wrote an interesting editorial piece in DRF tonight ("Horses Put Needlessly At Risk"). He kind of goes here and there within the piece (I think he is just upset, as nearly all are, at the loss of a great horse while racing).

But he does say the event should be delayed if a track is in the same condition in the future (while also noting the BC horses that have broken down while on different surfaces, at different venues, at different tracks).

What constitutes a "safe enough" track? Should dirt racing be cancelled if it rains significantly?

Danzig 10-29-2007 08:16 PM

we've lost more horses on better days condition-wise.
knee jerk reactions imo.

JJP 10-29-2007 08:23 PM

I blame the greed of the connections for this one. The horse had proven all he needed to do on grass; despite the fact he was never in contention in last year's Classic (while in much better form) they expected him to make the quantum leap to not only handle dirt, but slop........against the top dirt runners in the world. I agree with Vic Stauffer's comment before the race: "George Washington might be the worst 10-1 shot I've ever seen". It was an ignorant decision to race the horse on dirt and now they must live with their decision.

richard burch 10-29-2007 08:30 PM

requiem...
 
when i wrote this post i did'nt think it would evolve to this. i really was'nt emotional when i posted it but i did have three vodkas in me.

the frustration of seeing another great horse go down...and in those conditions made me angry. i havent changed my opinion on this but i respect all of the different views.

i love this sport and i don't want it to be tarnished by an event i still feel did'nt have to happen on racings biggest day.

for me, it's about keeping horses alive during and after there careers.


ie: john henry

richard burch 10-29-2007 08:32 PM

my sentiments exactly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP
I blame the greed of the connections for this one. The horse had proven all he needed to do on grass; despite the fact he was never in contention in last year's Classic (while in much better form) they expected him to make the quantum leap to not only handle dirt, but slop........against the top dirt runners in the world. I agree with Vic Stauffer's comment before the race: "George Washington might be the worst 10-1 shot I've ever seen". It was an ignorant decision to race the horse on dirt and now they must live with their decision.

...

JJP 10-29-2007 08:33 PM

He was in the race for one reason: not because it was the best spot but because if by some miracle and he won or ran 2nd or even 3rd, he would've enhanced his stud value.

Bolger's comments are laughable. I would equate it to Bobby Frankel or Todd Pletcher saying the Epsom Derby is meaningless because it often isn't run on firm turf.

Kasept 10-29-2007 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
It looks to be just a slap at US racing.

as far as the drugs issue, okay yes thats a valid one that we have to deal with, and maybe we aren't the example for the world. but the event that prompted his comment was the breakdown of a European horse, so I don't get the tie in to drugs.

and as far as the surface goes, advocating polytrack for all future BC's, can he actually be making the leap that using polytrack for the BC will guarantee no breakdowns will occurr? is he implying that there are no breakdowns over there on polytrack? and is polytrack safer than turf? if so why don't they run all the big european races on poly for safety? if its like he says and polytrack "separates the men from the boys" then why don't they lead the way?

as most people know on here I think polytrack might be safer in the long run, but a breakdown can occur anytime on any surface.

why should we take these comments seriously? I'm guessing he would have had nothing to say had George pulled off an upset and won the thing.

Jim,

It is a slap at US racing.. and one well-meant. And deserved. We're an embarassment on the International front in regards to our allowing tons of pharmaceutical enhancements in our horses, not to mention hidden foal surgeries and steroids in our sales yearlings/2yo's, etc.. It's a system totally skewed to greed that's hastened the deterioration of the quality of the racing and is undermining of the integrity of the breed.

And they do lead the way and don't need to run their races on polytrack... They're running on turf except at the all-weather/all-season locales. The comments should be taken seriously because they reflect the contempt that's out there for what is an increasingly inferior product on track in this country. That's fueled by increasingly fragile horses that are babied by the training community due to the need of the owners to feed right back into the perverted financial machine of the breeding side. It's a vicious circle.


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