I think there can be a difference between what we would like to see as fans/horseplayers and what we think the connections should do with their horses.
As a fan (and somebody who plans on playing the BC races) I would like to see full fields for every race. I would love for Nobiz to be in a BC race - especially the classic - because it is more fun to see a race with a big field and because some people would probably be foolish enough to bet some money on him.
The fact that, as a fan, I would like to see him in the race does not mean that I have to think it would be a smart decision on the part of his connections to actually enter him in the race.

It is foolish because there are much better alternatives. If they run in a BC race he clearly should be in the Mile. The BC Turf is probably the second choice. However, Tagg, who is one of the great trainers in the game, has said he is pointing to the Grade 1 Hollywood Derby. He isn't leaving this horse in the barn, and never has, but instead has picked one good spot for him after another. Yet, somehow people here apparently know better than he does where and when he should run the horse.

Who care's what you think he would stand for right now? Last time I checked he'll be racing next month. He's a 3 YO for Christmas sake. Not every horse has "has done enough" by the summer of their sophomore season. Everybody screams and cries about horses retiring early (Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, etc...) just let him be and enjoy him. He's run 3 times on turf and has won 2 grade 2's and a grade 3. Maybe he will turn into a nice sound grass horse that we can have around for a few years. You can worry about how much he'll fetch after he accomplishes something worth discussing.



What is wrong with the 102 beyer he earned under a hand ride on Saturday?

Exactly. :) With his name maybe they should stand him in CA or NY.

He is a nice horse but all the hype around a horse that is clearly a notch below the top horses is puzzling.

Don't get too caught up in the hand ride aspect of a race with extremely fast finishing fractions. The fast final fractions means it was extremely unlikely he would have gone any faster under urging.

Well in a couple of years we won't have this problem because there will probably be a 9f turf race for 3YOs that will be considered a BC race. Maybe there will even be a special BC race restricted to Albert the Great's offspring.
Once they decide that they need to expand the Breeders Cup to 70 different races contested over an entire week, all of these problems will be eliminated.

He is coming back next year in part because he has no choice. There is no way he could fill a book. As for his 102 beyer, it fits perfectly for what he is. A horse that is a notch below the top horses. Combine that with his average pedigree and he is worth little at stud. It is just hilarious how much hype this horse gets. He is the product of a trainer that knows how to place his horses. A solid horse on dirt and turf. Nothing more.

Does he really get a lot of hype? He typically doesn't on this board.

I felt the same way until the Jamaica. He showed me there that he may turn out to be a very good horse on the turf. We will have to wait and see.

I'm not saying where he SHOULD run his horse or when. I'm only saying that I don't think the Classic as a thought, is a stupid one. I'm not sure that I believe that the Mile is clearly his best race if he were to be in the BC. The horse has won six stakes in his career and all but one have been at 9f. I'd have more confidence in him competing in the Classic than dropping down to compete in the Mile. Not much more confident but a little more.

Of course, I know that Tagg is much better suited to charting a course for his horse than I am. I'm not stupid. If he feels the Hollywood Derby is the better spot for him, then by all means go there. But I do think that if he's not totally closing the door on the BC, the Classic is worth considering.

If speed figures mean absolutely anything, then considering him "one of the best five or six horses in the race" would seem to be a magnificient stretch for just about anyone.

On paper, Student Council is only about a length slower than Nobiz on the dirt.

If by "best five or six," you meant "slowest two or three" then yea, I totally agree.

If he went, you could at least hope for a field of eight...that way you couldn't lose on either account.

So am I to assume that horses don't mature in your world after 3? How about if he is still learning? Is that a possibility? Castellano had to yank him to the outside pretty hard, what happens when he figures it ALL out and gets there on his own? What has this horse done to make people dislike him so much?

After you get past Curlin, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Lawyer Ron and Hard Spun, tell me which other horses that are pointed to the race outclass Nobiz from a speed figure perspective?

True. He is not clueless. I should have said he was clueless on this issue. Nobody can take a guy seriously that said what he said about Nobiz. There are horses running today like Crossing the Line and his stablemate Showing Up (both with injuries now) that have much quicker turns of foot. I don't even think he has a quicker turn of foot than horses like Sunriver or After Market. He just ran on a turf course that is currently as hard as concrete.

I still have no idea why guys like Haskin love this horse so much. Must be the free dinners or something he is getting from the guys who stand Albert the Great. LOL. Although those guys do spend quite a bit advertising on the horse, which makes me wonder.

A bunch of horses, many who aren't going because they are too slow. Horses like Fairbanks, Master Command, Grasshopper, Political Force, etc. Nobiz is a 100 beyer type horse. There is nothing special about him on dirt. Maybe he will turn out to be a great turf horse, although doubtful, but he just is not a Breeders Cup Classic horse. I don't even think he could win a race like the Clark.

Tiago is faster on paper. Diamond Stripes is faster on paper.

Heck, if Zanjero were to go, he would even be up to giving Nobiz fits in the fight for 8th given his recent form.

Throw in the fact that at a mile and a quarter, Student Council is even arguably faster than Nobiz (considering that Student Council's mile and a quarter numbers of late are essentially within a length to a length and a half of Nobiz's top dirt races at any distance), it looks like you're left with maybe Awesome Gem being slower than Nobiz.

It's a moot point considering that Nobiz is not going, but if he were, at this time it would appear that nearly all of the probables for the race are faster than he is -- especially going a mile and quarter.

That's nine I can count, just off the top of my head.

the most absurd thing is that there is a thread discussing slobiz that has gone on for at least four pages now.

personally, i think the storm cat filly that won the turf stakes the other day at belmont is more appealing!

lest we forget great hunter .bwanna bull,imawildandcrazy guy... wondering boy..who i think would love monmouth