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-   -   Saturday's Results (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16897)

The Indomitable DrugS 09-23-2007 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
DWL has been demonized as a horse destroyer.

Because he is one.

But in his case - it's because he handles todays more fragile horses the same way he did when horses could stand up to his training and racing schedule. He hasn't adjusted well.

In his case, I don't think anyone believe it was designer drugs or exotic drugs no one can test for that was causing his horses to fall apart.

SentToStud 09-23-2007 09:22 AM

I think TID and Linny are right.

Anyone who has a family to support and works for a corporation has done the same thing. And I'd guess it's not as easy for a mid-level DRF reporter who does an ok job to land somewhere else as it is for, say, a similarly successful pharmaceutical sales rep.

Crist and Beyer (especially Beyer) will say exactly what's on their mind (or it seems). Lots of Beyer's stuff I really disagree with but I'm glad he says it.

Nothing to gain and lots to lose is a tough job to have.

The Indomitable DrugS 09-23-2007 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles
What exactly would they lose? A few quotes from Todd himself? Who really gives a ****?

I agree with you and wish they would start asking serious and tough questions.

In Asmussen's case up here, on paper, he has a very strong looking hand again today. Three morning line favorites, and another who figures to vie for favortisim.

If he gets blanked yet again - I'll give my horse players aren't getting treated right onslaught a rest - and focus my unbridled negativity to that. I have no career at this anyway.

Danzig 09-23-2007 09:51 AM

certainly an intriguing situation tho...two trainers who seemingly win anything and everything have both handed well-publicized suspensions, and now both are slumping.
of course that's the easy answer, and there could be many more factors involved. but i think it's a point to be made more so with asmussen, then pletcher. i believe that was pletchers first offense, while it's far from the first time that assmussen got caught with his hand in the illegal cookie jar. harder to believe that the leopard can change his spots overnight, yet six months is some serious time. wouldn't it be nice if everyone went back to just hay, oats and water--the playing field is levelled, and no one has to serve suspensions...it would go back to horsemanship only.

i guess i better pinch myself, i must be dreaming!

Travis Stone 09-23-2007 09:54 AM

I think Andy was most spot-on with how dismal Any Given Saturday looked winning the Brooklyn. You could have told me it was a quintet of $25k claimers coming down the stretch and I would have believed you. They looked pitiful. Maybe it's just a fluke, or maybe the current state of Pletchers barn took out the wow factor of AGS' win. Very interesting.

The Indomitable DrugS 09-23-2007 09:56 AM

I think all of Pletcher's stakes runners I saw yesterday looked a little flat through the late stages - like they missed that added something.

ArlJim78 09-23-2007 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone
I think Andy was most spot-on with how dismal Any Given Saturday looked winning the Brooklyn. You could have told me it was a quintet of $25k claimers coming down the stretch and I would have believed you. They looked pitiful. Maybe it's just a fluke, or maybe the current state of Pletchers barn took out the wow factor of AGS' win. Very interesting.

i think everyone saw the same thing, it was not impressive and as everyone else is saying his horses seem to have lost that extra something.

makes me wonder about Lawyer Ron who has had that extra something recently. will he still have it in the JCGC or will he also come back down to earth?

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-23-2007 10:15 AM

i think they made lr a project horse at t.a.p.... got em nice n fit and let him do the rest ...a great job..but when you have the amount of stock he has ..you can make a few high points in a not so great year..rags wasnt ready to come back..eh run em anyway.. the breeding alone will be worth millions.. only a guy like that that would enter a horse of that value in questionable shape..imo

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-23-2007 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
i think they made lr a project horse at t.a.p.... got em nice n fit and let him do the rest ...a great job..but when you have the amount of stock he has ..you can make a few high points in a not so great year..rags wasnt ready to come back..eh run em anyway.. the breeding alone will be worth millions.. only a guy like that that would enter a horse of that value in questionable shape..imo

..see blue gress cat

ELA 09-23-2007 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
I know the issue was discussed here, but I wonder: aren't people on the backstretch discussing Pletcher's recent numbers?

Yes. They are.

Eric

prudery 09-23-2007 10:23 AM

Frankly I think Pletcher has been running short horses for a while now and perhaps the results --especially amongst his big guns-- are showing up now glaringly ... The closing kicks aforementioned not being there says short . All the spacings of workouts and races and babying and resting, and his shopping for a soft win when he should be producing a racehard horse just is not working . His so called fresh horses have nada where it counts and just look short . AGS's race was beyond flat--it was somnabulistic .

ELA 09-23-2007 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
I have not read this whole thread, pardon me if I repeat someone...

TP has dropped off in NY but in Jersey and Illinois he's maintained his usual figs. Has he changed help? Has the question of the condition of the racing/training surfaces been brought up?
Something clearly is amiss with the "A Team" that's based in NY. His numbers ot the elite level declined even while his stable has grown. To me that says theat they are getting hurt between races or before their debut. The condition of the tracks has been a hot button issue for horsemen and though Todd has not been extremely vocal, even in the wake of Rag's injury, I have to assume that it's playing a role.


Cardus: Yep, it was discussed regularly on the Spa backstretch and I'd guess it's still a topic of chat at Belmont.
BTW: I agree with your premise, but the The Leopard at anything less than 5-1 was a joke. Esp. after seeing Immortal Eyes choke in the Belmont MSW.

Regarding the so called track condition issue(s) of today -- this has been going on for years. For whatever reason, it's coming to life now and getting to the forefront. Regardless, Todd has given a quote here and there, but has been very indifferent, almost ambivalent. Why hasn't anyone come right out and asked him whether or not there is a problem?

There are a few who are vocal and who think there is a huge problem. There are others who think there is absolutely nothing wrong. This entire issue -- real or not -- has nothing to do with Pletcher's barn. That's why I think he hasn't been vocal at all.

Eric

SentToStud 09-23-2007 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone
I think Andy was most spot-on with how dismal Any Given Saturday looked winning the Brooklyn. You could have told me it was a quintet of $25k claimers coming down the stretch and I would have believed you. They looked pitiful. Maybe it's just a fluke, or maybe the current state of Pletchers barn took out the wow factor of AGS' win. Very interesting.

He didn't look great but then again how good could he have looked against that crew, especially when the only colt with any chance to beat him ran the worst of all?

cmorioles 09-23-2007 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
He didn't look great but then again how good could he have looked against that crew, especially when the only colt with any chance to beat him ran the worst of all?

The horse that ran last was the worst horse in the field. The horse that ran 3rd last time ran by him late with a tougher trip, so how was he at least not better?

Anyway, he could look great by tracking the speed, cruising by, and winning off easily. How he didn't is a mystery.

SentToStud 09-23-2007 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles
The horse that ran last was the worst horse in the field. The horse that ran 3rd last time ran by him late with a tougher trip, so how was he at least not better?

Anyway, he could look great by tracking the speed, cruising by, and winning off easily. How he didn't is a mystery.

If all you ever look at is last race, yeah, maybe. Not exactly reflected in the $250k or so in the win pool. It's certainly easy to call the last place finisher the worst horse in the field a day after the race. Going into the race it can be just a bit tougher.

SentToStud 09-23-2007 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Come on man. Sightseeing had virtually no shot in there and is a pretty bad horse.

Well, cmorioles proclaims a day later he was obviously the worst horse going in. You agree? No big deal and congrats if you did.

If you saw this before the race and bet the right way, you got paid pretty good as the tri paid $65. Keying AGS over all ex-Sightseeing turned a 1/5 horse into 9/2 or so.

Linny 09-23-2007 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
I think TID and Linny are right.

Anyone who has a family to support and works for a corporation has done the same thing. And I'd guess it's not as easy for a mid-level DRF reporter who does an ok job to land somewhere else as it is for, say, a similarly successful pharmaceutical sales rep.

Crist and Beyer (especially Beyer) will say exactly what's on their mind (or it seems). Lots of Beyer's stuff I really disagree with but I'm glad he says it.

Nothing to gain and lots to lose is a tough job to have.

Crist and Beyer write opinion pieces, they are not reporters. The guys who report wont have much to tell folks if trainers (who they rely on for info) wont speak to them after they report or ask something that the trainer doesn't want published. if a guy like Grening had no access to TAP, McLaughlin, Shug, Violette, etc the would not have a job for long.

cmorioles 09-23-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
Crist and Beyer write opinion pieces, they are not reporters. The guys who report wont have much to tell folks if trainers (who they rely on for info) wont speak to them after they report or ask something that the trainer doesn't want published. if a guy like Grening had no access to TAP, McLaughlin, Shug, Violette, etc the would not have a job for long.

Well then what is the point of the job in the first place? Mouthpiece to the trainer?


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