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Antitrust32 04-20-2007 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan
hollow points used to be called "cop-killers". The hollows hit the target and spread out through the target, thus doing more damage!

man that sucks. why are they for sale? doesnt seem right...

Mortimer 04-20-2007 05:16 PM

This thing has fractured into a Trivial Pursuit game.





In fact it makes T.P. look like a college course.







BLECH!

timmgirvan 04-20-2007 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32
man that sucks. why are they for sale? doesnt seem right...

It used to be that police used them in response to criminals using automatic weapons....but the entire system is out of whack now! Mort: if you're bored...just go sit by YOUR thread till someone comes by who's bored enough to answer you! What is it with you? The shotgun approach to all in your presence? Not good...

Mortimer 04-20-2007 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan
It used to be that police used them in response to criminals using automatic weapons....but the entire system is out of whack now! Mort: if you're bored...just go sit by YOUR thread till someone comes by who's bored enough to answer you! What is it with you? The shotgun approach to all in your presence? Not good...


Shaaaaaa-dup.

SCUDSBROTHER 04-20-2007 05:38 PM

"Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said Cho bought about 100 rounds of hollow-point bullets, which rip terrible wounds in their victims. By the time Cho shot himself in the head, he had fired about 225 rounds of hollow points and other bullets."


I'm sorry,but a judge was able to see he was ill,and the Mental Health "professionals" dropped the ball that he passed to them.See,I am telling you people the truth.They just tell the Psychiatrist what he thinks he/she needs to hear,and that's it.He got to go buy his toys.There simply is a nationwide denial of the existence of mental illness.Basically,they told this guy to stop being depressed."Snap out of it"...........He snapped into it.They were willing to gamble that it would go another way.They treated this like it was a cold. Now you tell me,weren't these mental health professionals useless here? Yes,they were,and when they fail miserably at their job they go into cover your a-- mode,and say the laws don't allow them to do anything.I'M telling you that they are so bad at what they do that(even given the laws they want) they would have sent him home,and never followed up(just like they did here.) They are getting bailed out by using "the law is bad." They need to be held accountable,because they almost want to be snowed by these mental patients.They really don't want another mental patient to see for 15 minutes every couple months.

SCUDSBROTHER 04-20-2007 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32
man that sucks. why are they for sale? doesnt seem right...

For sell? This sick pup bought 100 rounds.You in Virginia?Go get yours too.....Damn Hillbillies.

Cajungator26 04-20-2007 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
For sell? This sick pup bought 100 rounds.You in Virginia?Go get yours too.....Damn Hillbillies.

Give it a rest, Scuds. Most people in Virginia aren't hillbillies. That's West Virginia! :p

somerfrost 04-20-2007 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan
hollow points used to be called "cop-killers". The hollows hit the target and spread out through the target, thus doing more damage!

Actually "cop killers" are bullets that can penetrate body armour, they are strictly illegal. A hollow point is just as the name implies, the tip of the bullet is removed and the top hollowed out, when they strike they do indeed mushroom out, they can enter the body the size of a dime or less and mushroom to a huge area, usually they don't pass completely through the body rather do maximum damage internally, if they do exit, you can drive a truck through the opening they leave. I'm not sure of the legality of these but they should be illegal...they are useless in hunting (destroy the meat), their only value is to kill people. I once owned a 38 pistol and the guy who sold it to me gave me a box of 357 cal hollowpoints with it (you can fire 357 loads from a 38)...they were hand loads (he loaded them himself). I fired a few into a target...frightening to say the least. A shot even in an arm or leg with a bullet like that can kill.

SCUDSBROTHER 04-20-2007 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
Give it a rest, Scuds. Most people in Virginia aren't hillbillies. That's West Virginia! :p

Well,if the majority of people in a state don't care about a citizen buying a 100 rounds of hollow-points,then that's a Hillbilly State.WOULDN'T YOU AGREE? Some of these people would have survived if he had been forced to use less lethal bullets.There is no excuse for this part of this scenario that took place.You wanna say he slipped through cracks? Fine,but to let Joe Citizen buy hollow-points just amazes me.

somerfrost 04-20-2007 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
"Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said Cho bought about 100 rounds of hollow-point bullets, which rip terrible wounds in their victims. By the time Cho shot himself in the head, he had fired about 225 rounds of hollow points and other bullets."


I'm sorry,but a judge was able to see he was ill,and the Mental Health "professionals" dropped the ball that he passed to them.See,I am telling you people the truth.They just tell the Psychiatrist what he thinks he/she needs to hear,and that's it.He got to go buy his toys.There simply is a nationwide denial of the existence of mental illness.Basically,they told this guy to stop being depressed."Snap out of it"...........He snapped into it.They were willing to gamble that it would go another way.They treated this like it was a cold. Now you tell me,weren't these mental health professionals useless here? Yes,they were,and when they fail miserably at their job they go into cover your a-- mode,and say the laws don't allow them to do anything.I'M telling you that they are so bad at what they do that(even given the laws they want) they would have sent him home,and never followed up(just like they did here.) They are getting bailed out by using "the law is bad." They need to be held accountable,because they almost want to be snowed by these mental patients.They really don't want another mental patient to see for 15 minutes every couple months.



Scuds...I'm not going to bother debating with a fool...yes, that's a personal statement but it's true. You know nothing about mental health, you just post mindless and false crap! I can only hope that folks, if they don't trust that I'm telling the truth, take the time to learn the facts for themselves.

timmgirvan 04-20-2007 06:23 PM

You are correct,Somer..in my haste to add a response, I forgot about armor piercing part. Thanks!

Cajungator26 04-20-2007 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
Actually "cop killers" are bullets that can penetrate body armour, they are strictly illegal. A hollow point is just as the name implies, the tip of the bullet is removed and the top hollowed out, when they strike they do indeed mushroom out, they can enter the body the size of a dime or less and mushroom to a huge area, usually they don't pass completely through the body rather do maximum damage internally, if they do exit, you can drive a truck through the opening they leave. I'm not sure of the legality of these but they should be illegal...they are useless in hunting (destroy the meat), their only value is to kill people. I once owned a 38 pistol and the guy who sold it to me gave me a box of 357 cal hollowpoints with it (you can fire 357 loads from a 38)...they were hand loads (he loaded them himself). I fired a few into a target...frightening to say the least. A shot even in an arm or leg with a bullet like that can kill.

I can't fire 357 loads from my .38... I think you can only do that with a .38 special.

Cajungator26 04-20-2007 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
Well,if the majority of people in a state don't care about a citizen buying a 100 rounds of hollow-points,then that's a Hillbilly State.WOULDN'T YOU AGREE? Some of these people would have survived if he had been forced to use less lethal bullets.

Scuds, this could have been the case in ANY state.

somerfrost 04-20-2007 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan
You are correct,Somer..in my haste to add a response, I forgot about armor piercing part. Thanks!

No problem Timm, I figured you knew I just wanted to clarify. Guns and stuff aren't my strong suit, I just happened to have that pistol and those bullets in the past and I recall how lethal they were. I pretty much gave up guns after I got out of the Army, I gave that pistol to a friend about 17-18 years ago, I hope it never found itself into the wrong hands.

somerfrost 04-20-2007 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
I can't fire 357 loads from my .38... I think you can only do that with a .38 special.

You are correct!

timmgirvan 04-20-2007 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
You are correct!

I was gonna say that!:D

Danzig 04-20-2007 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
Well,if the majority of people in a state don't care about a citizen buying a 100 rounds of hollow-points,then that's a Hillbilly State.WOULDN'T YOU AGREE? Some of these people would have survived if he had been forced to use less lethal bullets.There is no excuse for this part of this scenario that took place.You wanna say he slipped through cracks? Fine,but to let Joe Citizen buy hollow-points just amazes me.

i'd imagine they will close the loophole in the state law that allowed him to legally buy a handgun. if you can't buy the gun (well, he could have bought one illegally-no doubt would have if the gun shop wouldn't sell to him) then all the hollow point bullets in the world won't matter.

SCUDSBROTHER 04-20-2007 10:33 PM

Well I admit to being ignorant about what to call this writing trick.What do you call this? He says something about somebody,but waits until it appears to be a complete sentence.......only then does he say "you brats" or "you snobs" Is there a name for that delay mechanism? Maybe this is actually 4 sentences.I don't know."You brats," and "you snobs" could each be a sentence.

"Your Mercedes wasn't enough,you brats.Your Golden Necklaces weren't enough,you snobs."


I see this sort of style used a lot in HIP HOP MUSIC.They will write something like the following:

"Got stuck in snow so damn cold broke a bowl....."

Danzig 04-21-2007 12:25 PM

unlikely bedfellows???? here's hoping they can get this done! we don't need more gun laws, the ones we have need to work, and work everywhere! absolutely no one who is insane, a convicted felon, etc should be able to purchase a firearm. i don't wish to lose my rights due to creeps like cho-i only want people like cho to be kept from purchasing a gun, and making things tough on the rest of us.



House Democratic leaders are working with the National Rifle Association to bolster existing laws blocking mentally ill people from buying guns.

Lacking support to enact strong new gun measures even after the Virginia Tech shootings, Democrats are instead resurrecting legislation, which has drawn broad bipartisan support and NRA backing, that would improve the national background check system.

The measure, a version of which has passed the House in two previous Congresses but died in the Senate, could come to a House vote as early as next month. It would require states to supply more-thorough records, including for any mental illness-related court action against a would-be gun purchaser.

Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., a strong NRA ally who has been a leading opponent of most gun control legislation, is negotiating with the group on the background-check bill.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has tapped Dingell and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y. — a leading gun control supporter whose husband was fatally shot by a deranged gunman on the Long Island Railroad — to broker a swift compromise measure that could win passage in the House and Senate.

McCarthy said the measure was the best the Democratic-controlled Congress could do even in the wake of the deadly shooting rampage Monday in which a disturbed gunman killed 32 and then himself.

"We're not going to do anything more on guns — it's just not going to happen. This is a pro-gun Congress," said McCarthy.

Current law bars people judged by a court to be "mentally incompetent" from purchasing firearms, but the federal background check database is incomplete, with many states far behind in automating their records and sending them to the FBI.

Cho Seung-Hui, the 23-year-old gunman in the recent shootings, should have failed his background checks and been barred access to guns after a Virginia special justice found in 2005 that his mental illness made him a danger to himself, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said this week.

The measure being negotiated would subject states to possible penalties for failing to provide the information, and authorize new federal grants to help them do so.

"If we give the states what they need to enforce these limits, that's a big step," McCarthy said. "A computer is only as good as the information in it."

The measure has drawn bipartisan interest. Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, an NRA ally, is among the Republicans considering signing on.

Talks on the measure are extremely sensitive, given how little time has passed since Monday's shootings on the Blacksburg, Va., campus.

The legislation has spawned an unusual alliance between gun rights activists, who want background checks to be faster, and gun control advocates, who want them to be more accurate. Still, the NRA and some of its congressional allies are skittish about appearing to support any gun control measure in the wake of the Virginia Tech rampage.

"We have a potential opportunity to get something done that both sides have agreed (on) for a couple of years," said Peter Hamm, a Brady Campaign spokesman. "There's clearly a level of distrust that's as tall as Mount Everest between the two sides in this debate. We watch each other carefully."

Democratic Rep. Richard Boucher, who represents the southwestern Virginia district where the shootings unfolded, said he would not talk about gun policies until next week at the earliest, out of respect for the families of the victims. Like most lawmakers, Boucher wore a maroon and orange ribbon on his lapel Friday, set aside as a day of remembrance for the Virginia Tech tragedy.

Dingell would not comment on the talks Friday, nor would the NRA.

"This is not the time for political discussions, public policy debates or to advance a political agenda," the group said in a statement.

However, another gun rights group, the Gun Owners of America, is adamantly opposed to the legislation. It said the measure would allow the government to trample privacy rights by compiling reams of personal information and potentially bar mentally stable people from buying guns.

"The thing that most concerns us about this is our friends at the NRA are supporting it, and that could give Democrats cover in the election," said Larry Pratt, a spokesman for the group. "The NRA is making a mistake on this. This is a bill that could pass."

Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, a strong gun rights supporter, said he hasn't opposed the background check measure in the past and wouldn't expect to do so now.

Gun measures have been known to spin out of control in the freewheeling Senate — where any senator can seek to amend a bill. Any measure there would be looked upon as an opportunity for both gun control advocates eager to enact stronger limits and their foes pushing to weaken existing gun laws.

For Dingell's effort to succeed, Republicans and Democrats on both sides of the Capitol likely would have to agree to hold off on a broader gun debate and focus instead on the background-check measure.

"We need to be very careful that we don't intrude on the right of law-abiding and free citizens," Craig said. "We all search for the political screen of, 'Oh, we've got to do something and pass a law, and therefore the world will be a safer place.' Not necessarily."

SCUDSBROTHER 04-21-2007 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
unlikely bedfellows???? here's hoping they can get this done! we don't need more gun laws, the ones we have need to work, and work everywhere! absolutely no one who is insane, a convicted felon, etc should be able to purchase a firearm. i don't wish to lose my rights due to creeps like cho-i only want people like cho to be kept from purchasing a gun, and making things tough on the rest of us.



House Democratic leaders are working with the National Rifle Association to bolster existing laws blocking mentally ill people from buying guns.

Lacking support to enact strong new gun measures even after the Virginia Tech shootings, Democrats are instead resurrecting legislation, which has drawn broad bipartisan support and NRA backing, that would improve the national background check system.

The measure, a version of which has passed the House in two previous Congresses but died in the Senate, could come to a House vote as early as next month. It would require states to supply more-thorough records, including for any mental illness-related court action against a would-be gun purchaser.

Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., a strong NRA ally who has been a leading opponent of most gun control legislation, is negotiating with the group on the background-check bill.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has tapped Dingell and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y. — a leading gun control supporter whose husband was fatally shot by a deranged gunman on the Long Island Railroad — to broker a swift compromise measure that could win passage in the House and Senate.

McCarthy said the measure was the best the Democratic-controlled Congress could do even in the wake of the deadly shooting rampage Monday in which a disturbed gunman killed 32 and then himself.

"We're not going to do anything more on guns — it's just not going to happen. This is a pro-gun Congress," said McCarthy.

Current law bars people judged by a court to be "mentally incompetent" from purchasing firearms, but the federal background check database is incomplete, with many states far behind in automating their records and sending them to the FBI.

Cho Seung-Hui, the 23-year-old gunman in the recent shootings, should have failed his background checks and been barred access to guns after a Virginia special justice found in 2005 that his mental illness made him a danger to himself, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said this week.

The measure being negotiated would subject states to possible penalties for failing to provide the information, and authorize new federal grants to help them do so.

"If we give the states what they need to enforce these limits, that's a big step," McCarthy said. "A computer is only as good as the information in it."

The measure has drawn bipartisan interest. Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, an NRA ally, is among the Republicans considering signing on.

Talks on the measure are extremely sensitive, given how little time has passed since Monday's shootings on the Blacksburg, Va., campus.

The legislation has spawned an unusual alliance between gun rights activists, who want background checks to be faster, and gun control advocates, who want them to be more accurate. Still, the NRA and some of its congressional allies are skittish about appearing to support any gun control measure in the wake of the Virginia Tech rampage.

"We have a potential opportunity to get something done that both sides have agreed (on) for a couple of years," said Peter Hamm, a Brady Campaign spokesman. "There's clearly a level of distrust that's as tall as Mount Everest between the two sides in this debate. We watch each other carefully."

Democratic Rep. Richard Boucher, who represents the southwestern Virginia district where the shootings unfolded, said he would not talk about gun policies until next week at the earliest, out of respect for the families of the victims. Like most lawmakers, Boucher wore a maroon and orange ribbon on his lapel Friday, set aside as a day of remembrance for the Virginia Tech tragedy.

Dingell would not comment on the talks Friday, nor would the NRA.

"This is not the time for political discussions, public policy debates or to advance a political agenda," the group said in a statement.

However, another gun rights group, the Gun Owners of America, is adamantly opposed to the legislation. It said the measure would allow the government to trample privacy rights by compiling reams of personal information and potentially bar mentally stable people from buying guns.

"The thing that most concerns us about this is our friends at the NRA are supporting it, and that could give Democrats cover in the election," said Larry Pratt, a spokesman for the group. "The NRA is making a mistake on this. This is a bill that could pass."

Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, a strong gun rights supporter, said he hasn't opposed the background check measure in the past and wouldn't expect to do so now.

Gun measures have been known to spin out of control in the freewheeling Senate — where any senator can seek to amend a bill. Any measure there would be looked upon as an opportunity for both gun control advocates eager to enact stronger limits and their foes pushing to weaken existing gun laws.

For Dingell's effort to succeed, Republicans and Democrats on both sides of the Capitol likely would have to agree to hold off on a broader gun debate and focus instead on the background-check measure.

"We need to be very careful that we don't intrude on the right of law-abiding and free citizens," Craig said. "We all search for the political screen of, 'Oh, we've got to do something and pass a law, and therefore the world will be a safer place.' Not necessarily."

YOU YOURSELF ADMITTED HE COULD PROBABLY HAVE GOTTEN A GUN.He may not have(if he was told he couldn't get one legally.) He seemed on a mission.So,lets assume he could have illegally gotten 1(not 2) guns.Now,lets assume the average joe blow couldn't buy a hundred rounds of hollow point bullets.O.K.,AS IT WAS,he didn't use all hollow points.He used about 40% hollow points.So,I think he may have been on a mission to get a gun(any way he could,) but the hollow point bullets were obtained only because he could get them.Obviously he didn't demand to have all hollow points.So,I think if they hadn't allowed hollow points to be purchased by a pistol buyer in Virgina,then probably half (or more) of these people would still be alive.I see the argument for selling hollow points to average citizens to be poor,but the argument in favor of selling them for use with a pistol.........that is pss poor indeed.


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