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[quote=oracle80]
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I have no real opinion on this topic, although I think Lukas' record proves he's going to be remembered as one of the top trainers of all time... In the end, people are defined by what they've accomplished, not how well they were liked.
But I will say, I was the date of a guy who was invited to Satish's daughter's wedding. It was held at Padua and it was beautiful. But the date, a very high-end re-insurance owner, said that Satish wasnt well liked in the business world for a multiple of reasons I wont divulge. Whether this has any bearing on the current topic, its not my place to say as it is second-hand, but there was direct corrilations between the two. |
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I was in Lukas' barn this summer and he had about 30 horses. He still has some for Mrs. Lewis including Simon Pure who won a race at SAR.
Those who know nothing of someone's business dealings should not profess knowledge they don't have. I looked over every horse in the barn and saw many of them train and or race. They hardly looked abused. DWL changed the business. He has proven to be the greatest "trainer of trainers" the game has ever seen. Pletcher, McLaughlin, Hennig, Maker and others have gone on to success. Those guys didn't get to where they are by watching a moron. BTW, Going Wild looked great at SAR. He was second to Silver Wagon in a prep for the Forego. They skipped the Forego for an allowance and ran into Discreet Cat. He never had a "serious injury" just some of the same nagging issues that plague most race horses. He's a racehorse for crissakes. On the other thread folks are bemoainign how infrequently horses race and here Wayne's bashed for RACING his RACE HORSES! |
Hennig? You're not actually insinuating he's good....are you?
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[quote=Linny]I was in Lukas' barn this summer and he had about 30 horses. He still has some for Mrs. Lewis including Simon Pure who won a race at SAR.
Those who know nothing of someone's business dealings should not profess knowledge they don't have. I looked over every horse in the barn and saw many of them train and or race. They hardly looked abused. Nobody is saying that his horses aren't well fed. I'm sure they look fine sitting in their stalls. They're not abused in that way. You have to look at the number of horses he has broken down. The numbers don't lie. Why don't you try calling some of the thoroughbred insurance companies out there. Tell them that you just bought a 2 year old and and you want to insure him. Then tell them that your trainer is Lukas and see what they say. You will see that you will have a hard time finding a company that will sell you insurance. |
[quote=Dixie Porter]
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I have no idea if you're a smart guy or not. If you are a smart guy, nobody here will ever know it if you don't explain yourself. You say stuff like, "You don't know how to train a horse to get the most out of him." That's not telling us anything. That's not giving us any information. If you don't think I know how to train to get the most out of a horse, then tell us what part of my thinking is wrong and tell us what the proper way to get the most out of a horse is. You obviously had no explanation as to why Jerkens win percentage is higher when he gives his horses a break, so you simply called my percentages "lame". If you think that anyone is going to be impressd with your knowledge by making snide remarks you are mistaken. If you really do have some knowledge, then post it. I'd be happy to hear what you have to say. Nobody is going to learn anything from your comments like "Your percentages are lame" or "You don't know how to get the most out of a horse". |
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http://www.drf.com/row/pps/06whitney.pdf Your earlier post: "Who knows what they did to FA to get that big effort out of him in the BC Classic. He had just gotten beat by 15 lengths. If you have a horse with an injury and inject them to get one more race out of them, there is a good chance that they will not come back 100%. That is always the risk if you try to get one or two moe races out of a horse that is showing the beginning of a minor injury." Big effort? He performed that day the same as races prior to the rabbit, dumb jock and the gold cup performance. So are you implying that he was on something beforehand, went off in the Gold Cup and then was put back on for the Classic? I think Pletcher made a mistake not starting FA sooner in the year. He never cited injury as the reason for not starting him in the spring, but the desire to have a fresh horse for the fall. |
[quote=Dixie Porter]
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[quote=Dixie Porter]
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[quote=Dixie Porter]
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I wasn't implying that the horse was on something in any of his races. I was saying that he probably had a minor issue such as a puffy ankle or that type of thing. They probably didn't think it was bothering him so they had no reason to treat it before the JCGC. When he ran so bad, they realized that it was bothering him so they injected the ankle for the BC Classic. I'm not saying that this is definitely waht happened. I am saying that this type of thing happens all the time and it is likely that this is the type of thing that happened with FA. Trainers will never tell you about this type of thing. You will never heara trainer in an interview say, "The horse ran better today because we injected his ankle, knee, etc." |
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FA has had plenty of time to come back into form this year. Don't you think the reason that he hasn't is because of an injury? In this case, it is most likely a pretty significant injury, because most horses are running with minor ailments anyway and still manage to perform well. His performances have been horrible this year, except for the very first one. They are such fragile creatures... |
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[quote=Dixie Porter]
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There is nothing wrong with knocking a post but there is a prpoer way to do it. If you're going to disagree with a person, you should way, "I think you are wrong. Here is why." And then you explain why they are wrong. You're not adding anything to a discussion by saying "that's stupid" or "you're wrong" or that type of thing if you don't explain yourself. You need to tell a person why their comment was stupid or why it was wrong. Otherwise, your comments are empty and are a waste of our time. |
Padua current stable
Electrify (03 c) Delaware Township - Raspberry Eggcream Formal Appeal (03 c) Successful Appeal-Sweetbabe Gleaming Elegance, (03 f) High Yield-Juliet's Way Magical Baby, (04 f) Forestry-Absolute Magic Market Share, (04 c) Sky Classic-Ma Petite Mousse Philanderer, (04 c) Yes It's True-I'll Bedazzled Ultimat Perfection, (04 f) Tiznow-Western Delight War Cry, (02 c) Unbridled-Words of War Yes It's Time, (04 c) Yes It's True-Taunting |
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[quote=Rupert Pupkin]
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Do you realize that my boss Dixie trained under Chuck Norris after he beat chuck in a round of poker? Do you realize that my boss Dixie has forgotten more about horses than you will ever know? He learned from the great BA jones. Now apologize before i let dixie go and he gives you an 80 year old karate chop on the side of your head. |
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A horse running better as a 4 year old is not a golden rule either. |
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Todd said last year, right after the BCC that FA would make a late start and point for the '06 BCC. It appears to me that they had that plan. A horse with a significant injury doesn't run BSF's in the 90's as FA did in the Whitney. He's lost some speed and not replaced it with closing kick.
As for the JCGC last year, once he was fried in a pace duel with his own rabbit (why'd Todd do that again?) Johnny just eased him up. he knew that the big race was 4 (3?) weeks away. The margin could have been 4 lengths or 40, the result was the same. He was not persevered with. I don't know what his problem is this year but I doubt he has some terrible injury. They have gone over him with a fine toothed comb and found nothing. |
Believe what you want to, but logic tells me that when a horse is as good as FA was last year, and falls out of form as he did this year, it means that they are being bothered by something such as an injury. I have seen it happen time and time again. I am always leary of horses making late starts back for this reason. My opinion won't change unless a valid, believable excuse is made to explain Flower Alley's poor performances. The injury doesn't have to be a terrible injury for it to be affecting his races negatively. It could even be a mild to moderate injury. When I referred to a 'significant' injury earlier, I meant one that was affecting his performances in races, which is certainly significant if you have one that is as nice as Flower Alley.
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Speaking of horses running fast with serious injuries, look at Afleet Alex. He won the Belmont with a hairline fracture. With regard to Flower Alley, you don't know that they've gone over him with a fine-tooth comb and found nothing. I would bet serious money that they know exactly what's wrong with him. Just because they aren't saying it publicly, it doesn't mean that there is no problem or that they don't know what the problem is. With reagrd to Flower Alley in the JCGC last year, he was done at the 3/8 pole. If he just got a little tired from the fast pace, he would have at least fought until the 1/8th or the 1/16th pole. Borrego was 6 lengths by him before they even hit the 1/8th pole. There is no way that FA could have finished within 4 lengths of Borrego. you're just guessing that he ran fine and got a little tired and that JV wrapped on him. You should watch the replay before you assume that. |
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As for the JCGC, my point was that the margin of loss was a product of the early pace and JV knowing that he wasn't a contender at the 3/8 pole. He wrapped up. I don't think he could have been within 4 lenths, Borrego ate him up. The point was that the margin itself was meaningless. He proved it by running very well in the BCC.
I also find it hard to believe that if Todd knew after the Whitney that something was seriously wrong with his "HOY candidate" that he'd run back in the Woodward. You do that sort of thing with the claiming stock you refer to not the horse that you think could still get you an Eclipse. I'm sure that Melnyk is trying to sell FA for stud and any subsequent poor efforts with no announced reason cuts the price. If they know he has a particular serious issue they'd say so (to own the excuse) and not run him back. You don't wiat til the price is cut again and again by poor efforts, then announce why he ran so bad. I know most of the lesser horses (and many of the top horses) have issues to one degree or another. They all have something that's not right. lesser stock gets patched up and sent over. Horses with residual stud value are handled with kid gloves. |
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The BC Classic last year was a dreadfully slow race with a bunch of terrible horses outside of Saint Liam. Saint Liam got stuck with a horrible post and wanted nothing to do with ten furlongs but the field was so terrible he won anyways. On many figures Flower Alley ran just as fast in the Whitney as the BC Classic, the figures just got adjusted up since they couldn't give that low of a figure to the BC Classic. The Woodward is the first race that Flower Alley didn't run his normal race and it appears that going all out in the Whitney and getting his butt kicked may have killed off his interest in racing.
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I'm glad to see that HOY canindate was in quotes. This horse was terribly overrated off of 2 good (but neither great) races from last year. If this horse was trained by anyone else than Pletcher, he would have been considered an average horse.
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