I cant disagree here because I just find the mechanics of the sport broken. If you do draw in new people it is very tough to retain them as customers. Thats a different discussion though.

seriously?

This is racings fault...blame is squarely on their shoulders. You can't blame fans for living in the "now".

When was the last time you saw a 19-0 horse going for back to back Classic wins? and a female to boot. It was historic.

Yes, seriously. The 2008 Derby was watched by something like four times as many people as the 2010 Breeders Cup Classic, and that was without the 60 Minutes special.

All casual fans are drawn to the Derby.

What is the point?

Should equipoise and winstrol still be allowed?
Of course they should. They are horse medications with valid uses. The fact that there was no regulation of them was really the issue. Overreacting and banning them has not seemingly helped horseracing in the least. Of course we can now brag that we banned steroids knowing full well that the people who dont believe the sport is on the up and up still dont believe it. And when your horse is in need of a treatment program, you can now waste money trying substitutes that dont work nearly as effectively, if at all.

You comparing apples and oranges, please compare BC to BC, and triple crown events.........no one I talked to could care less about BB, he was like the 5th horse in 8 years to go for a TC attempt.

Well, nobody I know watched the Breeders Cup because of Zenyatta, so I guess we're even then.

Well maybe next time they can expose medications that have no valid uses...the use of perftoran and the like in race horses.

Of course they should. They are medications with clear and necessary clinical indications in the horse. Use doesn't automatically equate to abuse. Of course abuse of any drug shouldn't be allowed.

Alot of the negative attention to horse racing regarding "OMG steroids!" was ignorance-based and simply wrong.

I shouldn't blame people for ignoring the the history of the sport or its greats? Did racing declare that everything that happened pre-Smarty Jones is not relevant? The sport does not do a great job with keeping its history alive, this is true. But it isnt as though there isnt a lot of information available.

Her going for a second BC Classic and being undefeated was historic but not worthy of her placement in the annals of history by her ardent supporters. There was no greater moment in baseball history than Kirk Gibson's walkoff HR to win game 1 of the 1988 series. Doesnt mean Gibson ranks with Willie Mays and Babe Ruth.

Doesnt the "good of racing" or "exposure for racing" encompass all races?

The difference being that was was legal and one is illegal

We are talking about people tuning into the moment, history....and from that standpoint Gibsons HR was every bit as historic as Willie Mays over the head catch or Ruth's called shot.

How far do they need to go back? I say 1989. Are you more of a 1980 person?

The problem is whether legal or not some people use whatever they can get their hands on to improve performance...and think that as long as it doesn't test, they are doing nothing wrong. You're a trainer and a smart one...I'm sure you know others who use stuff on their horses and have absolutely no clue as to what it does. Kind of like going back to Dutrow when asked why he gives his horses steroids...he didn't have an answer for the interviewer.

Comparing the Kentucky Derby to the BC is just silly, I am sorry you can't see the difference. Thats what apples and oranges meant, you knew that though.

FTFY

Since you are so into history, can you please name for me those performances, since Lady's Secret, by an older female on dirt against males that were superior to Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic?

No one is denying her moment or that the story wasn't a made for tv story. It doesnt mean she should be horse of the year or is one of the top 50 horses in history.

I'm sure Dutrow knows exactly why his horses got monthly steroid shots.

The problem is rather that horse racing is generally run by a bunch of guys in charge of their individual fifdoms, that only react when forced into a corner, and then often react inadequately or oddly inappropriately (Life at Ten and the KHRC a good example of what they view to be the "problems" in the sport)

Horse racing in America is a group of cliques, where professionalism varies widely.

Human nature makes people cheat, not lax rules. While it is entirely far too easy to cheat the system now, there will always be those who will do whatever they can to make money regardless of how that is accomplished. People make the mistake and say they will do whatever they can to win. That isnt entirely true. If they could make more money losing, they would do that too. Which is one of the reasons that I skoff at the RMTC's assertion that it is making all this headway.

Dutrow is smarter than he looks or talks in interviews.

Where is the big difference? If we are going to discuss a neblous topic like "good for racing" and tv ratings are used as evidence then why can't the opposing point of view use the same evidence?

I agree...the guy is a great horseman. It's just the perception his clueless response to administering steroids had on the general public leading up to the Belmont. Anyway I just can't agree that Big Brown bought as much good attention to horse racing as Zenyatta. Whether or not that translates into lifelong fans and new bettors who knows.

I just dont think that outside the 2 week window leading up to the BC there was that much exposure. I was in Chicago the entire summer and there was zero mention of her, zero. That is one of the largest markets in the country and I don't see where she was even on anyones radar outside of regular fans.

In my pillory-free zone, I'm not sure I would put any performance by a 3YO filly since Lady's Secret in that category, since they were primarily in races restricted to 3YOs. I also can't think of a performance by a 3YO filly against older males in the relevant time frame that is superior to Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic.

One of those years right around that time was the most perfect day imaginable... guess my foggy memory served me foggy memories :D

2005 was cloudy. 2008 was about 1,832 degrees. 2006 was as nice a day as they come, and we got to see Jazil win the Belmont to boot! What a pretty horsey! Ahem...

I can't even remember what I had for lunch yesterday.

I can definatly think of one. A winning effort to boot.

what about 2003?

Hey I picked Jazil that day!! (cough, redboard)

Zenyatta's recent BC Classic try is right up there with Jolypha's '92 BC Classic effort and Island Fashion's '04 Big Cap.

Jolypha.

I think you're past the redboard statute of limitations. Like I can now safely say that I did, indeed, bet on Giacomo in 2005.

In any event, total aside, but I'm going to the Birds game tonight and next Sunday - and I'm not even an Eagles fan.

Oops. It was supposed to be an older female. Jolypha was a 3yo filly going against older males.

And everyone knows that 3yo fillies are much more advanced than 4 or 5 or 6 year old fillies/mares!

At least according to ass handicapper.

thats awesome!! two huge games also! I'll be at the Eagles / Viqueens & Eagles / Cowgirls at the end of the season

Jolypha ran well in a pretty good edition of the BC Classic.

The 2004 Big Cap was a very weak edition of that race, after the top SoCal horses (Pleasantly Perfect and Medaglia D'Oro) skipped the race and went to Dubai for the World Cup. In a better edition of the race the following year (Rock Hard Ten, Congrats, Saint Liam), Island Fashion finished 9th at 21-1.