Clearly Im not the only one who enjoyed it.

It also suggests Rick Dutrow, who's pretty sharp, isn't particularly aware of this.

I have no bone in this fight but if my alcoholic mind remembers right Scav Andy was one of the cats who talked to you right before you hit the pick 6. Correct me if I am wrong but I am fairly certain I remember you posting that.

These words we type get messed up in our minds, how they are read. I hope that makes sense.

Ya kidding right..


FOR SALE

I'm sure you've seen this move by Dutrow more than a few times over the years in New York...and it's probably safe to say most of the people who filled out a claim slip didn't really get any type of bargain.

It does not imply that at all, but whatever. We all read things differently.

My first post was specific to Arlington, as it says. I didn't mention any other trainers or their thoughts, at all.

Sometimes yes and sometime no. Wasn't Digger claimed from Dutrow?

Successful claiming trainers are good because they run horses where they belong and they also take advantage of the fact that often people are afraid to claim from them ( and sometimes rightfully so ) and can thus run horses cheaper than, theoretically, they should...and still keep the horse. It's convenient for people to say " oh, that guy cheats, don't claim from him " but it's a lot more complicated than that. Dutrow has been accused of a lot of things....but I have never heard anyone smart say he isn't a very good trainer.

You missed a thread on here.... ;)

You're not really listening. You're just trying to defend your side.

Why were these guys all going in, theoretically, on Wednesday when nobody went in for the horse in the past? If you are saying it's because these specific trainers weren't eligible to claim in NY, or paying attention, then you are really missing the point.

Yes... and I don't remember for sure but I think it was for about $30k.

Makes sense. Yeah I forgot about Digger being taken from Dutrow...so as with most anything there are no absolutes...just have to weigh the risk vs reward and do your homework.

As I said in my response right afterwards, guarantee was the wrong word.

The guys that I have spoken about never claim out of NY or anywhere they are not located (Calabrese sometimes goes other places, but those are usually private purchases, not claims and he usually doesn't even know about them), but for as long as I can remember, the guys have claimed horses down at Gulfstream to specifically run at Arlington. Now, you will find that hard to believe because obviously targeting Arlington and its races and claiming horses from there probably doesn't make sense, but they do it year after year. They want to win races at Arlington, period. The fact that both of those Dutrows are available for 15k makes them attractive to these guys because these guys look for horses at that specific level.

I don't dispute that others have had the opportunity to take these horses for 25k and passed, but why is it so impossible that the people I am speaking about will not claim them when they have had little opportunity before?

You say Adagio won't be claimed. I think he is a lock to be claimed if he runs, and I wouldn't be shocked that a Chicago guy got him. What other trainers from all over North America target, or what, I have no idea.

I will say that the fact that Rivelli already got one off him weakens my argument, so I am probably relying on Calabrese's two trainers now.

I never said he wouldn't be claimed.

Truthfully, if your weren't trying to see this as personal, and actually listened to what I was saying, you wouldn't keep repeating the same things as though they are specifically relevent to the point I am making.

My point has nothing to do, specifically, with the trainers you mentioned. What you refuse to acknowledge, or understand, is that he has been passed on in similar situations before. Starter Handicaps are not specific to Arlington....and every trainer in America knows about them.

Why not some type of wager? He will or wont be claimed.... I like it... Lets actually start a poll. If I knew how to, I would.

Obviously a guy with Calabrese's money can take a shot for $15,000...if he ends up eating him...eh move on to the next one. Too many of those kind of mistakes and most likely a trainer change would be on the horizon.

Mike Repole would fit into a similar category....and he passed in NY. And he's not the only one.

The point is....a LOT, in fact everybody, passed before. So, either the Chicago guys have figured something out that nobody in NY/NJ/PA/DE/MD understands ( which is impossible....and simply untrue ) or there's more than meets the eye.

Just looking at the surface doesn't do you ( one ) much good in this game.

This isn't personal anymore. I can care less about that part of all this now.

You are saying I refuse to acknowledge that he was passed up. I can obviously see he was passed for 25k. But the starter races in the midwest go for 16k and 5k, I think NY goes for 40 and they might even have a never won attached to them, I don't know. Philly rarely runs a starter handicap without a never condition attached to it.

The fact that he is in for 15k opens up a whole new horizon of available races for outfits that regularly target those races. F'n Maker is gonna be all over this horse also.

And quite honestly, how I see it, is that Dutrow wants this horse to be claimed, and knows someone aggressive is going to claim to see what they end up getting and I am hoping that someone gets him from Chicago, so I can bet against the f'n horse.

The point about $15K bringing him to a different level is a good one.

you bitches hug it out......

You can run the horse in the Claiming Crown races.

For what it's worth, I think someone's gonna claim him.

NT

He already qualifies for the Claiming Crown race. The turf race is 25k and below. The two 16k ones are dirt sprints.

This f'n horse is probably gonna be scratched.

Probably will...but the question is what do you think they get out of the horse? Eat him...their money back...a little profit...or a nice starter horse who's a moneymaker?

Scavs the horse is The Golden Man with a twist your best bet is to claim him for 16 wait 45 days till the lawn is opened at Penn and sart him there.

Argh!

I never said I wanted to claim any of these horses. I wouldn't claim a horse off of Dutrow with anyone's money.

There was a horse at Philly the other day that was a perfect claim but we didn't have time to turn it around because we saw it too late. He was an IN bred that broke his maiden against open company with all his conditions left and could have run against IN breds for big money and dominated. He got claimed by a Philly guy so maybe we still have a shot.

Uhm Scavs the big dog is on a plane surely you can tell whomever to drop a ticket?

It wasn't that. Just alot going on that day and didn't get a chance to look at him, there will be others, and just for you Freddy, I try and find any PA bred that is racing out there. :)

There are 50 decent Indy breds a year current..You missed? Come on Scavs that is all you..BTW they all have an issue

Less then that..... But IN breds can have alot of issues and still romp. Ours can barely take turns correctly and she did great last year.

Drop a zero and you're closer to accurate...

Should be a scratch anyway. Coming back up north soon, and NJ lawn most likely. You don't come back and train a horse after a your best TOP speed figure if there is a major problem. IEAH can make more money in NJ with this horse.

Adagio is not a graded stakes horse at this time, no more than Optimer was when he ran in the Manhattan. This time, it was Adagio who served as Court Vision's rabbit.

So many Tim Tebows on this board it hurts.

:baby:

OMG - this is like deja'vu' all over again, especially with the IN bred......

I love claiming discussions, being a claiming owner - it's always an opportunity to learn something.

I'd love to hear more about the logic of claiming an IN-bred at Philly Park. Can you expand on the thought process, please?

I really, really wanted to avoid getting involved in this thread, but I have to ask you Tom, why not? Indiana has a very solid state-bred program, with good additional bonus structures at the end of each meet. If there is a sound Indiana Bred who can run a 50-60 Beyer, why wouldn't you consider claiming him?

It's an interesting race. Dutrow is also the trainer of the 2nd fav, Formal King. That horse also appears to be a bit of a gift at the $15K claim price, since he's stepping down from $25K pricetag in which he finished 2nd of 11, 7 lengths in front of the rest of the field.

Dutrow was a past trainer (until claimed away in January) of the 3rd fav, Optimer. (Optimer was finally claimed for $25K after winning 4 straight $25K claimers.) In the race he was claimed, he finished 6th.

I like betting against dropdowns like Adagio and to a lesser extent, Formal King. Maybe Gaelic Storm?

--Dunbar

soon as you get out..they suck you back in...

I promise to stay focused grasshoppa'

Isn't Double Entawndra an IN Bred?