My sentiments exactly. I was waiting for him to say that she was blowing hard after he dismounted.

NT

I don't mean to be on the fence, but I think both deserved the award and have no problem with Rachel winning it.

However, if the Zenyatta camp is pissed, the best thing they can do this year is map out a campaign that will erase any doubts about her ability to ship and win races out of town facing better competiton than the same overmatched mares in California over and over again.

It would be ideal if at least one of the races this summer was against males in a handicap race.

Or she was retired

Well, that's a good point--but not his point.

In some ways this is beginning to remind me of 1990, when EVERYBODY was salivating over EG and SS coming back (of course they had a tremendous 4 race real rivalry from the year before, not just a battle on paper like now).

It was an enormous dud. EG didn't show up until May and was done by the 4th of July. SS ran twice in June and was done. They never met in 1990.

If the same happened here it would not surprise me.

you think? that horse could of been horse of the decade if they only ran her.....:zz: i think the "reality" has set in and they realize they have to travel....lets hope thats the case.

See what I don't understand, is that RA was annointed Champion before the Classic was even run. So why is it acceptable in horse racing to give the accolades before the season is over, but in all other sports, we wait until the playoffs. The Colts may have been the best team until Sunday's kickoff, but if the Jets beat them and win the Super Bowl, do we still crown the Colts Champions? The Colts rested there team the last two weeks, of the season. Nobody is giving them credit for maybe going 16-0. So why are we salivating over RA season, but when the Super Bowl(aka Classic) was run, we totally disregard the winner and blow it off, like it does not count. All I know, in the one field that Zenyatta beat that Saturday, there will be more horses standing at stud from that group, than the tomato cans that Rachael beat in all three times that see beat the males. In fact, just check out the field that Winning Colors beat in her Derby run, and she beat some pretty good horses that were eventually going to stud.

The idea that the BC is the "playoffs" is fallacious. That is why you are confused. You can win HOY without the BC--and that should apply double when the BC is stupid enough to run on plastic.

I just had a post about 1990. Do you remember was the 1990 HOY?

It wasn't Unbridled, who won the Derby and BCC.

It wasn't Go For Wand. Or Bayakoa, for that matter.

Get some perspective.

TOTALLY AGREE, they should vote before the BC. the results from the last two years are meaningless.

That's a very whispy recap of the '90 Easy Goer-Sunday Silence rivalry to say the least.

Outside of actually taking entries, the race was already setup. To be called the Arlington Challenge Cup, it was scheduled for August 4. The conditions stipulated that if both horses showed up, it would carry a $1 million purse. If one dropped out, it would fall to $600,000. If neither showed, $250,000.

Easy Goer retired July 18, no more than 2 weeks prior to the race. This also caused Criminal Type (who conquered both horses already on the year) to drop out, with Wayne Lukas calling an audible and sending him to the Whitney (he won) run on the same day as the Challenge Cup. Turf horse Steinlen was added to the probable field.

Despite EG's retirement, Sunday Silence still pointed to the race and was physically on the grounds at Arlington in early August. He was found to be injured and eventually retired the day of entries. Lukas dropped Steinlen out at this point, rerouting him to the Bernard Baruch.

Ultimately, warhorse Beau Genius won the race over CA-based Triteamtri, with Blue Grass winner Western Playboy 3rd. I think Clever Trevor was in the race as well.

I think you are going to the other extreme because of the last two stupid years. You have to consider the BC, but it is not an end-all, be-all. And you can discount it to the degree it is appropriate, which is what happened this year, at least in part.

I think people are really trying to over-complicate something that is not that complicated, at least to me.

It was meant to be "whispy". They were each to have 2 or 3 races before meeting up. They had their 2 or 3 races and were done. All the anticipation and all the plans meant nothing, ultimately. And what I said is that it would not surprise me to see that happen here. Would it surprise you?

I didn't hear it.

But - that's to be expected for an Asmussen returning from a layoff.

Curlin worked 1:06 flat for 5f in his first or second work back after winning the Dubai World Cup.

Tiz Wonderful worked 1:18 and change at the start of his comeback - and he was a very fast horse.

Had he finished the job in the Turf Cup instead of getting beat by a 100-1 shot and also won the BCC, then you would have a legitimate argument. Otherwise... no.

I hope you're wrong but it is a real possibility.
Didn't Criminal Type win the 1990 HOY?

Yes he did. I can't find it now but there used to be a video of a lot of his races that year. (when the Pimlico Special was a good race!)

The only reason the Sunday Silence-Easy Goer match up didn't take place was because of unfortunate injuries. Both horses were in good form at the time and their owners were willing participants.

If Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra don't get together (and really they should multiple times) I don't think it will have gotten as far along as SS-EG. Given the megalomaniacs involved, the horses' physical status might not even come into play.

I might be wrong, but didn't the NFL just announce that Peyton Manning won MVP and Charles Woodson won the Defensive Player of the Year award? Good thing the league waited until the season was over to dish out the hardware.

Every league has Season ending awards and playoff awards. The last time I checked, all stats in horse racing start on January 1 and end December 31. Just ask Garrett Gomez and Julian Leparoux. So by your analagy, the top seed in the AFC and NFC should be awarded the byes into the SuperBowl based on the season record. So if Manning gets hurt, we vote the Colts in as Super Bowl Champions because they were the best team during the regular season? Eventhough they might get beat in the playoffs? Someone once said to me, "That is why we play the games!"

'We play to WIN the games, its that simple'

to say your better is one thing but another to prove it. just find out hwre RA is running her comeback race and be there to run against her. Everytime RA sticks her arse out on a track be there with Zenny to race her

The fundamental difference in this Frost King character's argument is that...wait for it...THERE ARE NO PLAYOFFS IN HORSE RACING. Ahem.

I told him that already. It had no affect on his rant.

Don't you get it? The Breeders' Cup is CHAMPIONSHIP DAY, just like it always was. Because nothing about it has changed for the past two renewals. Not one factor. Can't think of a thing that might make people more inclined to avoid it than they were pre-2008.

Yes we do have a playoff in horse racing. You qualify for the Breeder's Cup by winning the "Win and Your In Route," or by garnering points in BC eligible races or by special invite. So you do have a playoff style system in horse racing. It all points towards the Championship Breeder's Cup Weekend. If that weekend means squat, then the whole program through the year is a sham. The whole concept of the Breeder's Cup is then useless. So why then have BC races during the season? If the end game is meaningless, then the lead up to it is also meaningless. I can understand, if a horse gets injured, but still then, do you give the MVP in baseball to a player that ends his season in July/August because he was going to be on pace for a season of all seasons? Or does it go to the guy that played to the end and put his team over the top? So before the BC, it was the toughest field that Zenyatta was going to face. So when she disposes them like they were standing still, the outcome is meaningless. You can't have both ways.

This sounds like a fellow who would also strongly advocate against a college football playoff.

No one said it as "meaningless". It just wasn't meaningful enough.

Is your whole life drawn in such black and whites? What a tiresome bore you must be.

Good question.

The problem with the above argument is that there really isn't an actual "offseason" in horse racing. It's not like every single horse is on the exact same schedule and is compelled to run 16 or 82 or 162 times per year or whatever.

Funny thing is … if RA actually had to line up against a legit good 3yo last year … like, say, a Bernardini ... or even an Any Given Saturday … we're not even having this discussion … Z wins HotY in a unanimous vote.

rachel alexandra would have no problem with any given saturday

Since we are visiting the mythical land of IF. If the Classic had been held on dirt, and Z had to face Roses In May and Flower Alley, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. RA would have won HOY by a greater margin.

Of course, if Zenyatta lines up against a killer like Inside Information, Ghostzapper, and probably even the aforementioned Bernardini, we are not having this discussion as well.

Unless you meant to say that RA would have beaten those horses and then even the most stubborn people would have to admit she did more than Zenyatta.

In that case, I would agree with you.

Citation would have drummed Rachel Alexandra. No way she deserved horse of the year.

Man O War would have whipped Zenyatta

We would not even be having a discussion if that happened.

What does that have to do with anything? :zz:

exactly slotdirt's point..

SB was the best Lucky Alexander faced all season … and he's a stayer … clearly vulnerable at anything less than ten.


AGS would've spanked LA…

Heck if Zenyatta had hooked up with Ashado we would not be having this conversation.

You're really skating on thin ice with this one. AGS's best race was the Haskell and RA's was better. There's just no way around it, and I was a huge (and financially less sound person because of it) AGS fan.

NT