Thors and Rags are better IMO...I'm a Rags man myself but understand that they are pricey for the genral public....beyers are the worst in my eyes, but then again it makesd sense...Rags are more exclusive and more expensive and those guys have a far more sophisticated formula IMO...

None of these could compute those efforts...the point is that if you keep up with the upper echelon of mainstream racing you shouldn't need somebody to quantify how good a race was....you obviously love Mr. Beyer so I'll just leave it at that....If I had a nickel for everytime he was wrong in his columns I'd be more rich a lot moreso than most any other handicapper's columns I have read on consistent basis...just saying...

You should go watch the Travers replay. Bernardini seemed to be dawdling in the stretch, so Javier cracked him once, his tail went out and he almost immediately opened up. So I'd say the whip didn't discourage him. It surprised him though.

He's never had to run a -4....it only takes a -2 to run away from his competition under wraps apparently....

Exactly. When he puts up a -5 like Mineshaft and Zapper we can talk....But to be fair those were as older so I'm willing to wait.

If sheet numbers were the end all of arguements then Bernardini is much better than Secretariat and Spectacular bid becuase his -2's are far superior to what those horses ran.

I was talking about running faster if the jockey actualy made them finish up.....when they 5 clear straightening for home with no challengers in site, Castellano and Gomez both sat still and let them cruise home on their own without ASKING FOR THEIR BEST EFFORT...jut like in a workout in the mornings when two horses breeze together and the jockeys idle them down and don't ask for 100% run....Bernardini and DC, regardless if they were eyeballed or not - were not asked for full run in the stretch yet....If they were ridden with broken cross and hard ridden in the stretch I would say that they ran as fast as they could have run....but they haven't....they've been shut down at the 16th pole...

Any number has a bit of objectivity in it, whether you are a tgraph, ragz, or beyer, guy. Any person with average vision can see that Bernardini could have won any of his races by whatever margin Javier deemed fit. Im sure Javy didnt think about his rag sheet number, or beyer when he choked him down the last 16th.

Horses do not decelerate like a car, inertia will carry them a 1/16th of a mile at a nearly identical speed regardless of what the jockey is doing.

He lost at least 2 lengths being geared down. It was probably more than the final 16th as well

Ah, a lenght probably, but it still is enough to sway a number

Physics dude, physics. Horses going full speed do not just slow down the instant a rider wants them to.

yeah, just ask john mckee...

Hes not standing up on the wire, hes being throttled down at least the last
16th. I understand inertia.

You tell me when he was asked to lay down and give everything he had......he wasn't....the pedal was never to the medal IMO....

I agree with that... only I don't think the pedal was to the metal... haha. :D

He does not have to be asked, he knows what to do, thats why he is a good horse.

Oops, sorry for the NASCAR term :D ;)

Comon man....his pilot dictates his pace...you should know that...Javier NEVER let him run in the JCGC...he even said that after the race in his postrace quotes....

Rule # 1 - Never listen to jockeys quotes unless they are negative.
Rule # 2 - Never assume that a horse who appears "well within himself" can go any faster than they are going

You should know these rules, your not a rookie.

Say what you will....the horse DID NOT give 100 effort.....he looked like he'd just grazed when he came back to the paddock....