i know great horses, bernardini isn't there yet. maybe some day he will be. he's got the talent, he seems to have what it takes.

i'll reserve judgement on 'greatness' til after he's met older at the very least.

i gotta give props to the bernardini fans. after his overwhelming win in the dandy, you'd expect to see a lot of hype. but bluegrass cat won his haskell by the widest margin ever--but for a change not too many people went with the latest star and have stuck to their guns.

but i think i'll go with the pletcher trainee over the albertrani, esp considering it's at saratoga.

but believe me, i won't be disappointed in whoever is the winner.

That is what I mean...some people don't think that he has the talent. As long as he stays healthy, this horse will go down in history as being one of the best we've ever seen.

I love it when you talk dirty.

Seriously, though, my brother started to major in physics, but realized it wasn't the physics he loved; it was the math, so he does love the heavy stuff (he finally majored in statistics). I actually loved calculus, especially... story problems. Really.

What if neither one wins? What about Bright One?

Cajun I was informed by fellow board members that he is not running. I thought he was going because Dale said he really wanted to run there one morning last week. He apparently has some mucus.

bright one is out. sick, heading maybe for the super derby. that leaves high cotton and maybe a ward horse as the early speed. ward has two going, ministers bid and dr pleasure.

i'm witholding judgement on whether he's one of the best ever. he hasn't done enough yet to know. he COULD be. he MAY be. ask me next year, or the year after!

Yeah, sorry...

I just saw that too. I'm trying to catch up on all these posts. That's a disappointment to me. I like this colt (even though he may have been over his head in the Travers.)

Well now, that would make too much sense. LMAO

I think Bernardini definitely has the talent, but the greatest ever? Please...

I only have one question with him, and that will be answered when he has a gutcheck.
Hes never had to fight in the lane. Hes been clear and running at his own leisure. Until his last start he also always bore in in the lane. He works alone, and with no company. Ragozins guys did an extensive study years ago regarding horses figures and easy wins. I was listening to an audio cassette(remember those?) back in 1992 put out by those guys as I drove to the Belmont Stakes to watch Ap Indy. The guy on the tape talked about this and I thank God I was listening to it because its made me a hell of a lot of money and dispelled a notion that I had that I see that many people still cling to. That notion is the idea that a horse who wins easily with a big fig could go even faster if pushed harder. I'm sure TG and Jerry Brown have done a study(those guys study EVERYTHING!) but I haven't read or heard theirs so I am using ragozin as a basis. They said on the tape that their studies showed that horses always ran their best lifetime figs in easy wins. That the notion that if pushed and ridden harder that they would be faster in the next race was completely false. I've been using that theory successfully for 14 years now.
I guess the explanation has been described as that when a horse is under no pressure from either horses or stress, that he can run free and efficiently doling out his energy as he WANTS to use it. Kinda like if you or I went for a two mile run and went at our own pace as far as what felt good to us to do. If pushed harder and being forced to use our own energy in a manner that wasnt the way we felt best doing it we wouldnt go as fast.
Its not Bern's fault that so far hes been clear, thats because of his immense talent. But I really think too much is being made of him being clear by many in a surface he relished and beating Hemingway's Key and Minister.
The Preakness set up for him when Bro Derek was hurt at the gate, Barb broke down, and SNS didn't run his race(hasnt run since then) and weaved down the lane.
The test he will get from Bluegrass Cat is sure to be his sternest yet as at some point Blue Cat will challenge him. The old time trainers I know always said you couldnt beat a horse like Bern from in front of him, because he will make that move and crush your spirit. The old timers I know always said you had to get one like this from BEHIND and make him run in the lane with someone actually laying on him because then the gut check takes place.
I think it Bluegrass cat can look him in the eyeball in the lane then he can beat him, because we still don't know how Bern will respond if looked in the eye.

Who has bluegrasscat ever looked in the eye and subsequently prevailed? It seems to me that every time that BGC has had a gutcheck, he has failed. Am I wrong here?

The point wasn't about Bluegrass Cat. At least Bluegrass Cat has actually had a gutcheck. Bernardini hasn't and that's what Mike was saying. IF he can handle running next to someone in the lane, then he wins for fun, but whose to say he can handle running next to someone down the stretch?

I understand your point. But my point is...what kind of "gutcheck" will it be against a horse that has proven every time that he folds in such situations?

I agree with you that in about 99% of the cases a horse that won big couldn't have gone much faster if pushed through the wire. The Dandy though is one of the 1% of races where the horse really was geared down and could have gone faster. He didn't just finish that race under a hand ride. He finished it while the jockey was fighting to pull him back and slow him down. Now the real question is if he had run 4 lengths faster would the Beyer have come in any higher or would they have just changed the variant so that he ran the same figure. So there may be a fundamental difference in whether a horse could have gone faster if pushed through the wire and whether they would have got a higher figure, especially when dealing with single race variants.

While those two are gutchecking themselves on down the lane, it sets the race up perfectly for Ministers Bid. :D

I would love to see that sister! I bet him in his maiden at keeneland at 9-1 and i have been in love ever since. And im sure i'll bet on him again this weekend because im a glutton.

You have good taste in horses!!!

AT least someone gets the point of it. Dalakhani never gets points because he too busy just trying to shoot people down rather than EVER add something of interest of a ticket that people can make money on.
Bluegrass Cat was a mediocre horse until his last race, I think I described him as such right here many times. I've never been a big Bluegrass Cat fan or supporter.
Thats why when i saw the Haskell I just couldnt believe what I was seeing, I really couldnt. That was a completely different animal mentally then the one I saw before. I was wondering if they made a mistake and mixed up the halters in the Whitney the day before and ran FA in the Haskell.
The horse had never shown good speed before and had not been so settled and controllable. He had always run in spots before, not always mentally focused on his race at all times. He always had to be ridden very hard to get postion or run down the lane.
In the Haskell he was keen early, settled exactly when asked afterhe got position, and then responded under no urging to enagage the leader and when set down in the lane switched leads on cue and took off like a jet plane. That was a breakthrough race for him and I think that the lightbulb finally went on over his head. He gets it now, and certainly acted like a horse who not only enjoyed what he was doing but knew what he was supposed to do as well.
His workout the other day was anxiously awaited by everyone to see if the lightbulb had indeed stayed on or if it was perhaps a fluke. The clocker/extrainer I sat next to turned to me after the workout and said "Son, did you see that?! Lemme tell you what son, that was the work of the MEET and I seen em all!!!!". I think hes mentally awoken and perhaps had much more talent than I ever gave him credit for. Quite frankly I thought he always got too much hype because of his trainer and the fact that he was by Storm Cat. This is a dynamic game, and we are allowed to change our opinions based on what we see develop. I think he can win this Saturday.

If you have worked with the horse or are some way connected I can understand a extreme expression of one's involvement. It's ok to be alittle Crazy. I just wanted to know , if you were connected I would go lightly with any smack about your horse. That's all.

I'm figuring that the reason High Cotton was sent to this race instead of running for easy money in the WV etc is to give Bernardini a 'gut check'. I respect Bluegrass Cat and think he will never live down being beat by Deputy Glitters and only getting second in the Derby and Belmont, but regardless I think he is still a step below Bernardini. Perhaps Pletcher is looking for a way to 'even things out' for his horse.

I think he's got a ton of talent as well. The Dandy was his first race around two turns and I don't think he did that bad at all. I was impressed considering his lack of starts. I'll be pulling for him to win this weekend. (I think I'm going to put a few bucks on him to win for ****s and grins.) :)