Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Paddock (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   NYT: Drugs & I Want Revenge (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32108)

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
I didn't realize I couldn't have an opinion on lasix if I wasn't a trainer. I missed that memo....Fact is I'd rather not have it like a good portion of the world. That's it.

Hey believe whatever you want. Want to believe Lasix masks things and creates genetic mutants, knock yourself out.

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
The standards of intellectually honest reporting are relatively low. I'd place the standards of writing on a higher level.

Yes that would be more accurate.

Fulla Sheets 10-06-2009 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Hey believe whatever you want. Want to believe Lasix masks things and creates genetic mutants, knock yourself out.

So thats how Scav got that way.

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulla Sheets
So thats how Scav got that way.

Scavs is one of a kind.

randallscott35 10-06-2009 06:08 PM

19 years later and we are having the same argument.

From your favorite rag no less Chuck.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/08/sp...-evidence.html

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
19 years later and we are having the same argument.

From your favorite rag no less Chuck.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/08/sp...-evidence.html

And I still fail to see a reason why banning Lasix would do anything positive. Hell we banned steroids, nothing changed except field size is down. We banned toe grabs with absolutely no positive effect. We tried artificial surfaces with negative results.

Lasix is a false villain.

randallscott35 10-06-2009 06:34 PM

Well Dr. Gorman thought it could be used to mask things back then. I'm sure two decades later he has changed his mind.

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
Well Dr. Gorman thought it could be used to mask things back then. I'm sure two decades later he has changed his mind.

Do we have to go through the list of technological advances since then? I was on a medication committee that met with the KHRA over proposals for updating medication rules a few years ago. One of the chemists on the panel said with absolute certainty that no diuretic (specifically Salix) can prevent detection of known substances at the levels that they can now test at. Of course he was bragging but the explanation was part of an idea that we needed to update the thresholds of allowable medications because the rules were holdovers from a different era of testing. Naturally there was no funding to do the research.

richard 10-06-2009 07:12 PM

Take a look at the pdf file of the April vet bill. Almost $1,500 , mostly for injections is cause for concern ? Or not ?

The link is within the NYT article itself. About 19 injections for just 3 weeks.

freddymo 10-06-2009 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
. And there is virtually no way to duplicate their set up.

Explain??

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo
Explain??

One backside, two tracks, complete surveillance 24 hours a day, vets work for Jockey Club, small horse population, good weather, no due process, trainers/owners limited numbers, form stewards, gigantic budget.

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard
Take a look at the pdf file of the April vet bill. Almost $1,500 , mostly for injections is cause for concern ? Or not ?

The link is within the NYT article itself. About 19 injections for just 3 weeks.

There is nothing that is anything but routine on those vet bills. Close to $300 of that is for gastrogard which is an innocuous ulcer treatment. Over $500 is diagnostic work including multiple xrays, ultra sound and endoscopic examination.
From the top it looks he electrolytes/vitamins and fluids which is normal. Naquasone paste is used to reduce minor inflammation and was given in oral form. Liquamycin is an antibiotic. Panacur powerpack is a series of 5 dewormers. On 4/13 he was given what looks like a pre-work series of enzymes, Bute and Adequan which is a joint treatment that helps reduce the inflammation and pain of degenerative joint disease, but also to help stop the degenerative process while stimulating the production of new joint fluid and new cartilage components. Adequan would be given in the muscle in this case.

On the 14th he was given Lasix before the work and scoped afterwards. He must have had some inflammation as they ultrasounded the right leg. he also got another shot of antibiotics.

On the 15th he had his digital tendon sheath injected with what looks like a combo of Amikacin which is an antibiotic used with bacterial infections and possibly polyglycan which is hyaluromnic acid, glucosamine and sodium chondroitan and possibly vetalog which is a corticosteroid used to fight inflamation. He also got a shot of Baytril which is also an antibiotic.

He got antibiotics till the 21st when he worked and was scoped again.

The next week he only got vitamins

On the 28th he worked again and bled (see EIPH slight) and both ankles were injected with hyalrulonic acid.

The next day he got 1 shot of antibiotics and vitamins

The next day he received a DMSO jug, a shot of Robaxin which is a muscle relaxant and a shot of banamine which reduces inflammation.

The day before the derby he got a shot of bute, amino acids, and robinul and sodium iodide. The Robinul and sodium iodide are usually used as a prerace treatment for a bleeder.

The rest is self explanatory.

chucklestheclown 10-06-2009 09:52 PM

Fascinating. What is lost here is that IEAH vetted him out and he was, presumably, fine, or fine enough. They should sue their vet and/or insurance company and not Lanzman. And yes, I'm a lawyer so I am fully qualified to speak on this matter.

Sightseek 10-06-2009 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
What's your point? Lasix isn't natural. If we went to hay and oats and no lasix I wouldn't care if a ton of horses couldn't run. We need a healthy breed. Not the best bleeders around....And the bigger isssue is lasix is a masking agent.

What do you do with all of those horses then?


All horses have the potential to become bleeders - this is a good and brief article on what is going on in the horses lungs while under exercise:

http://www.ctba.com/03magazine/jul/AskVets.pdf

Cannon Shell 10-06-2009 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown
Fascinating. What is lost here is that IEAH vetted him out and he was, presumably, fine, or fine enough. They should sue their vet and/or insurance company and not Lanzman. And yes, I'm a lawyer so I am fully qualified to speak on this matter.

I'm interested to know on what basis would you sue the vet and insurance co?

richard 10-07-2009 01:50 AM

Let me take a moment and thank Trainer CS for his time and shared insight into these matters .

magic_idol 10-07-2009 03:06 AM

They did a study in australia were they scoped 1000 horses after hard work & a amazing result came back 82 % of these horses had bleed in some form , Not all horses bleed out both nostrils which is classed as a "bleeder".
I Have seen & backed unfortunately quite a few bleeders who dont bleed out the nose but when suddenly did not preform or have the classic fly for 800 mtrs the stop come back as what the vet calls white ie when it's scoped it's bleed so much it's white inside.
Bleeders are banned & no laxis is allowed in australia in case the horse falls down dead .but the reallity this never happens, more likely to be a heart attack than a bleeding attack so the non use of laxis is absolutely stupid,
On a completely different note if a racehorse has sore feet but is absolutely safe shouldnt it run on bute as its not affecting it's preformance just easing the horses pain when it runs for 1 min 12 secs.
Drug laws are made for people not horses.

parsixfarms 10-07-2009 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard
Take a look at the pdf file of the April vet bill. Almost $1,500.

Actually, the vet bill for the six week period was over $3,000. The bills to each owner were for only 50%, presumably reflecting their respective ownership interests.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.