Yeah, he was just 53-for-131 (40% wins) with a $2.38 ROI with all starters in 2008 at high takeout Calder.

He was a mere 46-for-90 (51% wins) with a $2.96 ROI with all dirt starters at Calder in '08.

But you are right - anyone who takes washed up old claimers from Bill Mott and gets them to draw off in the Breeders Cup Mile should never be grouped with those others.

hahahahahahah, i laughed my ass off

As for the 117 figure... it looks pretty cut and dry.

I think CJ pretty much covered the straight forward obvious way to look at it. Here's more of an esoteric way...

When Lost in the Fog won the '05 Sunshine Million Dash at GP - he ran 0.44 seconds faster than Alix M did in the F & M dirt sprint at the same distance 30 minutes later.

By comparison, This Ones for Phil ran 1.45 seconds faster than High Resolve did in the F & M dirt sprint one hour later.

Both Alix M. and High Resolve got 96 Beyers for those wins. LITF got a 102 and TOfP got a 117 .. as one full second at 6fs equals 15 Beyer points.

If you want to try and make a case that the track got much slower after TOfP ran ... well, thats a hard case to make, because the previous dirt races earlier on in the card all could have been timed with a sundial.

compound that with High Resolve ran an unbelievable great race as it is

It's not a big deal for cappers, but it would be a lot more fun to cap the horse(than to cap the trainer.) Uh, the people who are gunna have to change this are the ones that have the most to lose(other trainers and owners.) BTW, is Ramsey giving horses to Dutrow yet?

Not for all the TRAINER 'cappers out there.

Who isn't a trainer capper?

He did take a 6yo Meisques Approval, who was an Overnight Stake horse for BILL MOTT and turn him into a Breeders Cup Champ. He crushed a good group of horses that day. Had he faced the same group the year before, he wouldve been drowned.

long range problem is the owners who dont win the 30% of races with these guys will be knocked out of the game and for example in fla we will have a 3 horse stakes field with entries from maybe wesley ward, kirk ziadie and wolfson

ME, for one.

I also don't get an erection whenever a new gelding is announced.

You don't care that the trainer of a 2 year old maiden is Wesley Ward? You see that horse the same as one trained by Kathleen O'connell, or Phil Gleaves? Are you saying you just don't bet those races?

I hate to answer for the fat man, but the guys I know that focus mostly on trip-handicapping don't bet too many races with a bunch of first-time starters.

Miesque's Approval had won several stakes that year leading up to the Breeder's Cup starting with the Sunshine Millions Turf in January. He won the Eclipse that year because of the whole campaign. It is not like that win came from no where.

Paul

You're correct. Marty Wolfson did not just turn him around for a miracle win in the BC Mile. He also turned this 7YO claimer around for several wins in stakes. Just mentioning the BC doesn't do this particular miracle justice.

Help us Steve please! Are you Milk or are you Meat? If you are going to defend guys like Dutrow and Wolfson and not call them out then why would you suggest Beyer's article is an important read?

Can you agree with Beyer and not denounce the likes of the chemists mentioned?

I never said the BC Mile win came from nowhere. He had a very solid campaign.
I was drawing the comparsion from the previous year. What the horse would have done in the same race 12 months earlier. ( before Marty Miracle)

One of my great disappointments as a fan is not having had the chance to see what Wolfson could have done with horses like Theatrical and Cigar. He could have straightened out the mistakes that Mott was making and really made them special.

MA was a very good 3yo grasser but had tailed off by the time Wolfson got him. He was offered for a $50k tag in the late fall of the year prior to his Mile win. I think it was his only race for a tag. That hardly makes him a "claimer" in the usual sense. Like how when Charismatic won the Derby and was hailed as a "former claimer." That said, I do agree that Wolfson overall, belongs in this category.

He surely would have had Cigar running on dirt.
He could have won the Jackie Wackie, my personal fav Stake, like 5 straight years.