A healthy debate really requires more of a response than "it is rather insignificant". It wasn't to the dam of Capote's Crown who was being sold and a Grade 1 stakes placing would have sent the cost up another 3 million dollars. Nor was it to the fans, handicappers who included him in their tri's.

The law of averages assumes a given set of consistent variables. With Kent you never know what kind of ride you are going to get. His mood/disagreeable nature/insecurities all factor in. With other jocks you don't have so many of these kinds of factors that filter into their rides.

Trainers ride Jock's for all sorts of reasons. Dutrow has made it clear he wouldn't have him on his horses except the owners have told him that they want him. That frequently happens. As for what happened at Belmont no one knows for sure. I think the combination of a horse that wasn't as fit as he needed to be along with a horrible ride were the main factors. What was the most prominent factor is anyone's guess. I mean it was Da Tara out there. We aren't talking about Affirmed and Alydar here.

But I have seen it so often in the last three years. When Kent is rounding the turn with a horse he is giving up on, he doesn't ride him and pulls him up very quickly at or just past the finish which is always very bad for the horse. And I challenge you to watch him after the finish line and see how far he gallops his horses out. I was at Churchill at the beginning of July and the fans were all over him there for doing that. There are many trainers who won't ride him now. I assume there will be more to come. He hasn't put up his house on Long Island for no reason. He's fixing to move on AGAIN.

Sorry to digress, but I'm confused as to how Capote's Crown getting third in a Grade 1 would have elevated her dam's price by three million dollars. What am I missing?

When a jock doesn't fully ride out a horse -- in the example of a filly/mare -- in a graded stake, costing the horse 3rd and winding up 4th, yes, we all know the costs. The jock, absent of some immediate concern or problem, is 100% to blame.

Have I seen it happen? Yes. Have I seen it happen in overnight races? Yes.

Question -- if a jock is called out by the stewards for not fully riding out to the wire, does the jock always get days, or is just a fine (with no days) a possibile penalty?

Eric

Good Question. It had to do with breeding, getting the grade one placing, that negoiation that was going on during that meet. Multiple factors actually. But if you see Chris McCarron, ask him he taught the course to help emphasize the importance of a jockey's ride as extending further than just a particular race. By the way, caught the Siro's gig when I was in Saratoga for the week a couple of weeks ago. Good job. Interesting show. I may catch it again on Saturday. Trying to find a horse to beat Curlin.

Thanks.... but it was a rhetorical question.

Desourmeaux's failing to ride out mounts is more than unfortunate. It did not, however, make the dam of Capote's Crown worth 3 million dollars less. You do realize her value had little to do with Capote's Crown I assume.

I really don't. If the dam produces a grade 1 placing from her off-spring, her value does increase. That would only make sense. Doesn't it?

Having a foal finish third in a Grade 1 is not going to add three million dollars of value to a dam's worth.

That particular dam's value was established by two other foals of her's. If Capote's Crown had wings, and won a Grade 1 ( she was a very mediocre horse ), that would have added to the mare's value. However, considering her progeny, Capote's Crown ( even with a third in a Grade 1 ) was hardly going to increase her value substantially....and nowhere close to three million dollars.

You do realize we're talking about the dam of Smoke Glacken.....don't you?

By the way, the most important reason Desormeaux did not affect the dam's value if he cost Capote's Crown a Grade 1 placing is probably that she was 21 years old at the time.

and smokey glacken

Obviously.

Didn't a half win here over the last couple of weeks? I know one ran.

Yes, by Sky Mesa. Argyle Pink.

desormeaux doesnt sleep.......he waits.

Dedumbeaux

Who is he, Chuck Norris?

Lost in all this is that Johnny V's ride, in the same race, was about as bad as it gets: not only did he blow the chances for his horse but he screwed up the race dynamics and handed the race to HF.