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-   -   John Ward (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19605)

Linny 01-23-2008 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
I don't know Ken McPeek at all, and you're right he does seem to win, but he may also have personality clashes with some owners. I seem to remember him losing a few owners before he briefly left the game.

It would be unfair to condemn anyone for this, as it's a two way street, and while sometimes ( I'm sure ) the trainer is to blame, but I am also sure that many owners are difficult to deal with. This is a primary reason that Todd Pletcher has been so successful ( along with having a great staff ). He has done a tremendous job of communicating well with owners.
It is worth noting too that once a trainer reaches a certain level, "elite status" then he can essentially tell owners that they must play by "trainers rules." No owner is going to tell Todd or Bobby Frankel or the Chief what to do with his horses. If you want these guys training your stock you deal with their rules, to a certain extent. That said, Todd's operation is very good at communicating wit clients. All his assistants are trained to deal with owners etc. in the manner that they expect for the $$$ they spend.

JJP 01-23-2008 08:38 PM
Isn't Dr. Pleasure out of Beautiful Pleasure? Those "regal" bloodlines types seem to be habitually overbet.

Bobby Fischer 01-23-2008 08:44 PM
McPeek is a "solid" trainer. I am not scared of his horses suddenly showing dramatic improvement. Seems to run to form.



pace scenario: Will Portobello Road "inherit" the easy lead ?

Cornelio Velasquez will posture for the lead out of the gate with Dr. Pleasure, but I don't think he is going to go out in an early duel if Joe Bravo shows any initiative.
Portobello Road actually finished half-decent in his last two races at a mile.
Rene Douglas is not exactly a speed jockey, but he could have a chance to force the issue with Bullet Rain. The track condition will play a role as well.

KY_Sasquash 01-23-2008 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOL JACK
I think McPeek does a good job, across the board. He can get one to fire off any length of lay-off, which I consider an important trait in calling someone a good trainer.
However, nevermind my opinions from afar, just ask McPeek he'll tell you he is the best.:D

Really? I don't have his numbers in front of me, but I usually play him the exact opposite. I'd say he's less than 15% off a layoff.

Cannon Shell 01-23-2008 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
McPeek is a "solid" trainer. I am not scared of his horses suddenly showing dramatic improvement. Seems to run to form.
This is a perfect example of the hypocracy of people trying to figure out who is "clean" and who isn't. Because you feel that his horses dont show "dramatic" improvement, he is a clean trainer. I am not implying that he is not but the evidence that some guys are cheating and some guys arent is not always readily apparent in past performance lines or speed figures. I'm not picking on you BF but just pointing out how some people are unfairly labeled as juicers and some guys are wrongly labeled as clean, and the fact that many times the opposite is true.

PPerfectfan 01-23-2008 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes44
Iron my shirt.

Bite Me!!! :D

Bobby Fischer 01-23-2008 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
This is a perfect example of the hypocracy of people trying to figure out who is "clean" and who isn't. Because you feel that his horses dont show "dramatic" improvement, he is a clean trainer. I am not implying that he is not but the evidence that some guys are cheating and some guys arent is not always readily apparent in past performance lines or speed figures. I'm not picking on you BF but just pointing out how some people are unfairly labeled as juicers and some guys are wrongly labeled as clean, and the fact that many times the opposite is true.
:) ! Never meant to imply that he was clean(or otherwise).
You make a very good point.

we don't know.

All the player can really do is handicap and then observe the results. If someone is outperforming or underperforming, make a note of it. If a barn is hot, make a note of it.

I try not to call a trainer a "juicer". I was talking horses last year with a mentor whom I respect, and I mentioned a "leading" trainer's "late juice". My mentor looked at me and firmly said "he is a good trainer".
Much more classy.:o

Cannon Shell 01-23-2008 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
:) ! Never meant to imply that he was clean(or otherwise).
You make a very good point.

we don't know.

All the player can really do is handicap and then observe the results. If someone is outperforming or underperforming, make a note of it. If a barn is hot, make a note of it.

I try not to call a trainer a "juicer". I was talking horses last year with a mentor whom I respect, and I mentioned a "leading" trainer's "late juice". My mentor looked at me and firmly said "he is a good trainer".
Much more classy.:o
I didnt think you did but it may have come across as almost the unsaid indictment. I am not naive enough to think that some guys dont have an advantage but some would be surprised at some of the good rep guys who shouldnt be.

blackthroatedwind 01-24-2008 12:53 PM
Dr. Pleasure remains eligible for his NW1X condition.

The Bid 01-24-2008 01:33 PM
That may be Wards plan BDW. To keep placing in the 1x until he makes a hundred thousand or so.

Bobby Fischer 01-24-2008 03:17 PM
That race was more fun to handicap than to watch.

Slewbopper 01-25-2008 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPerfectfan
Bite Me!!! :D
Where Lizzy?

whodey17 01-25-2008 05:14 PM
BTW--when did you become a professional on judging horses talent? Where you in the barn at the time Mr. Ward made this comment? Where you there to watch every workout, every feeding every move each horse made. I would say you weren't. Mr Ward trained Monarchos, consulted Mr Sekiguchi with the purchase of Fu Peg (and trained the horse early in his career), and trained Beautiful Pleasure. Also, Dr Pleasure has been hampered by injuries throughout most of his career. Who is to say how good Dr Pleasure could have been if it wasn't for the injuries.

VOL JACK 01-25-2008 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Quite possibly the finest post in DT history. The guy with a hard on for Zito, is defending one of the most underachieving trainers in this era.

Wow, John Ward consulted an owner on the purchase of the sales topper from the Keeneland sale? How did he do it? Helen Keller could have seen the horse was the goods, it's why he sold for $4 million douche.

I pose this question, just how good could horses like Monarchos, Beautiful Pleasure and Sky mesa have been without a horrendous trainer? I'd say pretty good. Stick to your strong suit, talking sh it and mythical bets.
With all the money Oxley has spent; there should be more than 3 noteworthy horses.

PPerfectfan 01-26-2008 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by merasmag
his post neither said nor implied anything about juice...as someone who's "just a gambler" i thought he was referring to bet-againsts...u seem to protest WAY too much shelly---as to the original post, wtf cares about john ward? as was correctly pointed out, he's not trippin old ladies to get to a microphone ala dwl...why are you so concerned with what others think of certain trainers btw? were u ever in politics? tryin to deflect heat from your bud? r u on the payroll? wtf cares about john ward??? now, if honu were around, perhaps she'd chime in on the women in the barn thing, but she probably has better things to do than respond to such stupid ****:p
I am not Honu, but I think I made it known my thoughts on the whole "women in the barn" statement.......:rolleyes: Now let me get back to my dusting and washing, sorry to interupt you men folk!!

Indian Charlie 01-26-2008 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Quite possibly the finest post in DT history. The guy with a hard on for Zito, is defending one of the most underachieving trainers in this era.

Wow, John Ward consulted an owner on the purchase of the sales topper from the Keeneland sale? How did he do it? Helen Keller could have seen the horse was the goods, it's why he sold for $4 million douche.

I pose this question, just how good could horses like Monarchos, Beautiful Pleasure and Sky mesa have been without a horrendous trainer? I'd say pretty good. Stick to your strong suit, talking sh it and mythical bets.
Also, strong contender showed more in his maiden win than dr pleasure has shown at any and all points in his entire career.

i was utterly flabbergasted at the time ward made that comment proclaiming that this horse was better than SC.

that comment by ward ranks up there as one of the three biggest idiotic remarks by a trainer i've ever heard or read. The other two being ellis with declan's moon and gary jones with apollo.

Bobby Fischer 01-26-2008 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
Also, strong contender showed more in his maiden win than dr pleasure has shown at any and all points in his entire career.

i was utterly flabbergasted at the time ward made that comment proclaiming that this horse was better than SC.

that comment by ward ranks up there as one of the three biggest idiotic remarks by a trainer i've ever heard or read. The other two being ellis with declan's moon and gary jones with apollo.

Right. Also at that time Minister's Bid was very promising with the closing maiden win on the speed biased Keeneland (old dirt) track, and then the good win over Flashy Bull in the allowance.
I had a hunch at the time that Ward made those comments, he was probably feeling good about all three, and that Pleasure may have been a personal favorite of Oxley. Just a hunch.


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