Mike Maloney is not just one of the biggest bettors in the country, he is also one of the sharpest horseplayers alive, and an extremely bright and well-spoken advocate of bettor's rights. To make light of this is a mistake. None of us knows as much as he knows about this situation and I for one listen to anything he has to say and take it all seriously.

The bottom line is that the necessary dollars have not been spent to update our tote system and even one situation like this is too many for me. Laugh and joke all you want but if you put your money through the windows you should be taking this very seriously......and expecting that all racing organizations are acting in kind.

i think layering on the idea that a system is vulnerable to insider manipulation to a sport that already requires complicated puzzle solving skills is a problem.

whether that's real or just an inaccurate perception doesn't matter. no one wants to think they may get cheated.

you're too close to the issue cannon. it doesn't matter if it's real. the perception that the industry shrugs it shoulder's and says "no big deal" will effect handle a lot more in the long term than eliminating the bad perception late odd shifts and the occasional accident like this cause.

If this was the stock market, they'd be in fear of class action lawsuits when this kind of thing happend. Which would deter it. Please I'm hardly a fan of lawyers and lawsuits but they do deter stuff like this from happening. Unfortunately in parimutual racing, the victims are too splintered and most couldn't provide proof (losing tix) that they were injured.

I did not know that my opinions needed to be qualified any differently because my "livelihood depends on" the issue. I would venture that this has been occuring for as long as machines were used to take wagers. Probably less now than ever.

If what you say is true, can you say with any degree of certainty or with verifiable evidence that the Breeders Cup scandal which is much worse than this has negatively effected handle in any manner? I agree that the security of the pools is a huge issue but this example seems to be an isolated case. If not why hasn't it been brought up pubically before? Or has it?

Game set match goes to the blogger from Ky.....

BC scandal probably actually drove handle up!!!!

Any publicity is good publicity!!

This in the words of Mr "Shakes"......"Is much ado about nothing"

Odds on winners go down way too much for it to be a coincidence.You really don't have an excuse for not getting a bet at home made.I would be fine with shutting pools down for everyone except those at the actual track the race is taking place.Let them have that perk(for going to the actual track.)

I agree. For this to happen once is one time too many.

And if he was, in fact, punching tickets during the race, you can bet your last dollar others were doing the same.

As an aside, Maloney would be better at running Homeland Security than whoever they have now.

i can say that most people are satisfied the problem that lead to the pick 6 scandal was addressed and confident it can't be repeated.

they changed course after that. which makes all the difference.

what would have happened to handle in the pick 6 if everyone knew something strange had happened and the reaction had been "don't worry. that was an isolated incident and we don't need to do anything about it."

Big difference between the the BC scandal and this. Wagering security is important, that I understand. But I am at a racetrack every day and I talk to people in different jurisdictions daily and I cant remember the last time I heard about betting after the race went off. What would concern me more is a hacker getting into the system without anyone knowing. If you want to say that this instance was an example of a faulty system then I can agree with you. But if this had happened to this guy before why didn't he give other examples? Or did he and they weren't reported?

-from the article Maloney was hanging out by the teller , the race started and the machine didn't beep to indicate wagering was closed.

Sounds like he was at least aware of what to look for.

Fair Grounds states that their stop-wagering mechanism "malfunctioned". For that race only. - So if the problem was centralized in FG and not in KEE = than Maloney may not have been the only past-post money. And any persuasive player matched with a crooked/gullible teller could have bet late or cancelled late for this race. :cool:

Also it wouldn't be incredibly far fetched, to raise some possibilities that the FG stop-wagering mechanism was at previous times a bit tardy...

quotes from the bc scandal:

"Brooks Pierce, president of Autotote, which processes 65 percent of all horse racing wagers in North America, confirmed that the Maryland man won more than $3 million on his $1,152 bet. He also said that his company's records show the man made two bets at 2:13 p.m. and 2:14 p.m. on Saturday, well before pool was closed at 2:37 p.m.

Pierce said the bettor made a pick-six wager on a $2 ticket that did not win using a similar strategy -- he bet the entire field in the first two legs and then picked one horse in the remaining four. He said he had not yet been asked for the data by state investigators, but he intended to provide it.

''We've done the autopsy and do not have any question about the veracity of the bets,'' Pierce said. ''I can understand how a skeptic can look at a pool of this size and only one winner -- especially with those four singles -- and have concerns.

''But I also would like to think we have a pretty good story about a guy who didn't bet much and made a lot of money. I believe that is good for racing as well.'' "

and

"Donald Groth, president of Catskill OTB, also believes that the bettor had a career day betting. He said phone bets are recorded and monitored.

''Everything we have points to the legitimacy of this bet,'' Groth said. ''If some technological event happened as it left here, I don't know what it would be. I hope that the investigation is concluded swiftly, so our customer can go out and buy a Mercedes or two. Isn't that what you would do?'' "


fortunatly those attitudes weren't allowed to prevail.

Dead on here. The tote systems that racing are using are behind the times. For example, we're told by the tote companies that the reason that there aren't future pools with more than 24 wagering interests is that their systems can't handle it. In this day and age, they've got to be kidding. If they're not, then their systems are not as sophisticated as we're led to believe.

Perception is very important here. I realize that many place their wagers at the last few minutes to post, but I also know that people can adapt to changes in circumstances. If wagering were closed one minute to post, people would adjust over time. As I frequently say to friends of mine, gamblers rarely get shut out on a bet they really want to make.

I completely agree. Bettors will most certainly learn to adjust.

But it must be uniform for all outlets that accept wagers, live or on line.


When I first moved from NY to California, NY still had the rule that the wagering closed with 2 horses left to load. Well that I guess applied to only NY wagerers. I was often able to cancel wagers at the Del Mar facility, after a start delay due to a horse breaking through the gate. I doubt that was possible at the live track in NY. Nobody should have that type advantage unless all can have it.

I also remember the days at NY tracks that the Daily Double closed 2 minutes to post for race one. Much bigger crowds back then and no problems or mass complaints.

Interesting argument here as I've read all of the post. If this indeed happened, it's a shame. I'm hoping this doesn't happen again at any track.
It takes away from the integrity of the game. Speaking of integrity, how can anyone respect this Maloney fellow if he knowingly CHEATED. Also would he bloviate on this if he in fact had won his tardy wager. Big Bettor or not, I question his character.. As far as when to shut down the windows. In no way do I want the race to close 2 seconds or two minutes before the gate opens. I'm sure most of the people who support shutting the windows early haven't had to stand in line with the average race fan in quite some time. There has to be technology to prevent betting after the horses have left the gate.

Hi Tech
 

"He said that the stop wagering mechanism the stewards use malfunctioned, and that the mutual manager stopped wagering 15 seconds after the race began."

Nice to know that the highest forms of modern technology are being utilized. :rolleyes:

Which begs the obvious question, just how the hell does he do that?