I asked him after the Preakness if he thought Barbaro would have won if he wasn't hurt and he said maybe but Bernardini was likely just as good as Barbaro on the dirt. He thought Barbaro would be the better of the two at the Belmont distance but that Bernardini was going to be an all-time great. They said they knew about Bernardini all along so it wasn't really a surprise. Barbaro still won the big one though and let's just hope he makes it back to the farm.

Barbaro has been great for racing. The amount of support he has gotten is beyond anything any horse has ever gotten, from racing fans and non-racing fans. He is better for racing than Bernardini could ever be. Bernardini's owners don't even show up for his races.

Well, better in what regards?...ust because they are owned by wealthy Shieks doesn't necessarily mean that he is not a good horse for the people...I know that everybodt saw the movie "Dreamer" and that the Shieks are portrayed as the bad guys of the industry in that movie - BUT, in reality the owner is a smaller story to me...Yes, ownerships matter when there is a good blue-collar story, but I don't think Bernardini will necessarily be punished for his owners if he goes on to be great....the media will find a stoyline, trust me....we can sell all types of horses to the American public to make them love us and we willl sell him if he really excells in the national spotlight...

As for the 'better for racing' comment, yeah, we covet our Derby winners and Barbaro had a non-main stream interest like Funny Cide and Smarty Jones did, but that fades with time, too....Look at Funny Cide..he is very average now and his impact has dwindled although he still won a graded event a couple fo weeks go.....the American public grasps the star of the moment and will cling to him if he proves to be worthy...Funny Cide was certainly no Superstar IMO, but the American public didn't understand that and who cares?..the sport got good pub off of the NY gelding and his story...

I think that Bernardini will prove to be 'better for racing' because he is a horse that COULD easily change the breed....he is a beautiful speciment and a beautiful mover and is by one of the most important sires from one of the nicer blue-blood broodmares in our sport.....it is excellence at that level that WILL make him a strong influence on the breed once he retires and goes to the breeding shed....

Additionally, Barbaro's injury has also NOT been the best thing for our game IMO...I know negative publicity is better than no publicity, but when it comes to hurting animals...now there is a very, very sensative subject to the American public and I guarantee it has completely turned off a large number of casual race fans, and away from our game.....

Now, some goods things will and have come from that incident, but it is hard for someone to state that Barabaro will prove to be a greater contributor to this game than Bernardini...that is just my point..

God I think I will throw up. Really, this statement is absolutely nauseating.

Horses like Smarty Jones and Funny Cide are loved because they are not deemed blue bloods.

I consider breeding higher quality horses to add a greater dynamic to racing(which is what Bernardini has a real chance to do...remember, he will get all of Goldolphins best mares that are from the Northern Dancer sireline) is 'better for racing' (as he quoted in making his point) than the attention and notice the sport got for Barbaro....would you really argue that? A casual racing fan probably won't remember who won the '06 Derby in ten years...just a fact....it would take a hint such as "the horse that broke his leg" - and THAT is what they will associate Barabaro with...that is just the cold, hard facts man...

Additionally, horse players who wager on the sport make the game go round, not casual horse fans that only care to watch the Derby and MAYBE the Breeders' Cup....As a very involved horse player who is consistantly supporting this game, I want to see dynamic race horses that go on top make a significant imapct on the breed....I want to bet the future stars out of the regally-bred and talented Bernardini...that is what the lifeblood of out industry - the gambler - wants...

I'm not saying that Barbaro DOES NOT have the impact that Bernardini does or will, but my point is that it is too early to say one way or the other and that you could make a very strong point for Bernardini here......that is my point and its only an opinion....

Elusive Quality stands for $100K and Distorted Humor stands for $150K...Yes, they are well-bred horses........they were blue-collar horses because the story that the media ran with was their blue-collar connections....that doesn't always have to be the same ole song....as a matter of fact, we need another angle...the 'blue-collar connections' angle has been played out in recent years, although it is still a nice angle...

Now I'm sorry, that sounds like sour grapes. It's a real shame that Barbaro broke down, but I will not make him into something greater than he was, nor will I tear down Bernardini or his owners because of it. Bernardini could dominate the summer and fall races and some fans will begrudge him credit because he will not have beaten Barbaro. I just have to :rolleyes: at that. I'm very glad that Barbaro has gotten support from racing and non-racing fans - this could be a very heartwarming story - but sheesh - does Bernardini have to break down to prove how popular he might be? I hope this colt goes on to dominate and to be honest, not just because I love him and feel he has all the promise in the world. It's getting so that I want to stick it to the fans who feel the need (I'm not referring to you necessarily, but to the the fans with Barbaro-colored glasses on) to tear down a talented colt. I despise hypocrites (again, not you)- racing fans clamor for stars and when there is one in their midst, they don't want him to be great because of their own love for another horse.

I also meant in my other post that their would be anti-Sheikh sentiment; for that reason alone, Bernardini will never be as popular as Barbaro. I'm sure the Sheikh loves his horses as much as the Jacksons and that's what counts with me.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel like I can vent here without fear of being attacked (as happens on other boards).......

Game needs new blood. Fans and horses.

The best possible scenario: A horse with a very distant (not highly inbred lineage), big time losing genetic background wins the TC. And the owners are ma and pa.

If you can figure that one out then you could be the COO for any company within this industry....

So what you're saying is that racing fans only latch onto horses that are not viewed as bluebloods? Well, even if that is the case, I don't care. Horses like Bernardini are just as deserving of affection as the those you mentioned above, and if the public doesn't latch onto him, then fine. I don't care; I love the horse and he has a chance to do great things. If fans don't appreciate him (that's IF Bernardini lives up to his promise), well - that's their issue. I don't see any reason why Smarty Jones and Funny Cide are better for the sport than Bernardini; a great horse is a great horse, period.

I agree with a lot of what you've written in this thread, but the correlation of great horse to great offspring is too weak to get excited about Bernardini's future as a sire. Nor do I agree that there is much need for another top sire, unless that sire is going to pass on durability. With 4 races under his belt, it's too soon to speculate whether Bernardini is durable.

A casual racing fan will not be able to mention a single top sire. Nor will the fan care if the breed is perceived to be "getting faster". Besides, the most noteworthy change in the breed in the last 25 years is the apparent increase in fragility.

I don't think you know what the gambler wants. As a serious gambler, I want to bet horses that run frequently. If they run twice then take 6 months off, I will be up against inside information that will out-weigh my own handicapping skills. I could not care less whether I am betting on an off-spring of Bernardini or one of Grindstone. What I want is a horse who runs often enough for me to apply whatever capping insights I think give me an advantage over the public.

For that matter, I don't think I can speak for what the casual gambler wants either. I am only willing to bet when I have good reason to think I have an edge. I don't believe the casual gambler thinks in those terms. But I'm pretty certain that the typical horseplayer would not say that the breed needs another good sire.

And I'm not saying which horse will have the bigger impact on racing either. I'm just finding fault with the reasoning you are using to justify Bernardini's importance.

I completely agree with you re Bernardini vs Corinthian, and also your comments re Discreet Cat.

--Dunbar

Bernardini is better than Smarty or Alex, and unlike the two of them, he might actually stick around to race at four.

Bernardini is better than Smarty or Alex, and unlike the two of them, he might actually stick around to race at four.

I disagree very much, especially in regards to Bernardini being better than Smarty, who was cost a triple crown by dirty riding antics, which we've already been through.

Not yet at this point in his career can you say he is better than Smarty. Hes raced what 4 times? And I am all for horses sticking around until they get old, so I hope to see Bernardini race until he is 6 or 7. I wish Smarty had stuck around and the Belmont did not come up smelling like rotten eggs. He was awesome.

I loved Smarty, and that Belmont annoys me to this day as I'm sure it annoys you.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I feel that Bernardini is better than Smarty or Alex. I don't care how many times he's run. I think he's better.

Cool. I hope he sticks around so we can see it. I like his trainer.

Whats his next race?

The Jim Dandy. I'm an Albertrani fan as well.

3YOs who are better than Corinthian

Barbaro, Bernardini, Discreet Cat, Sweetnorthernsaint, Point Determined, AP Warrior, Minister's Bid, Jazil, Steppenwolfer, Lawyer Ron, Brother Derek, the horse that won the Lexington, the German horse who was beaten a nose in the Arlington Classic, High Cotton, Showing Up. I'll stop at 15 but I'm sure we could find more. Shows how silly a Bernardini vs Corinthian debate is.

Because the game has become a big breeding game and it stinks. Horses are taken off the track very early without a chance to build up any following. This is clearly a problem. Breeding for breedings sake. Lets just breed them and prance them around in front of judges like a dog show. You wanna dog show. I dont want a dog show. I watch racing for the athletes. Not for the conformation or trying to back up my beliefs about why a horse that has won is successful based on his heredity. Let them run.

Did you see Sea Biscuit? Were you rooting for War Admiral? I must admit I bet and rooted for Empire Maker over Funny Cide in the 2003 Belmont but its easy to see why the public pulls for the less regally bred horse. The general public are not rich stuffy aristocrats and they love to see an average Joe take down the "expected champion".