Derby Trail Forums - why hard spun sucks...

Page 3 of 5

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)

- The Paddock (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - why hard spun sucks... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16291)

ELA	08-26-2007 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hail2Reason

I agree, but the trainer and owner brought it upon themselves with their lies about why they were running in the race. Even the clowns at ESPN were laughing at how they were saying they went in the race because it was a good prep for their eventual plan of the Breeders Cup Classic. Don't insult my intelligence. He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win. It wasn't because they thought it was a good prep.

It really doesn't matter. They'll say what they are going to say -- truth, lies, whatever, and your intelligence may or may not be insulted. That's part of this game. The connections of horses will never manage their horses based upon, up to, etc., other people's expectations, desires, wants, or whatever you want to call. Maybe it's no different than criticizing Steinbrenner for making an owner's move, or Torre for making a manager's move.

Be that as it may -- it doesn't matter because it had nothing to do with the horse and his performance. Why Hard Spun sucks -- what kind of thread it that. Anyone who looks to criticize this horse off that performance is just grasping at straws. He could have done this, or he could have went there, or whatever. All that talk could make winners out of all the losers at the track. Could have, should have, would have.

Eric

ELA	08-26-2007 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

Eric, It would be refreshing -- almost novel, at this point -- for people in any endeavor who appear before media to speak truthfully about their motivations. Given its rarity these days, Jones and/or Porter would be hailed as honest guys, and people might not begrudge them for the breeding deal, because, "at least they were honest."

I'd dismiss most of the negative assessments in this thread, but I'm OK with anyone wishing for plain old honesty from owners and trainers.

I hear you, and I agree. It is a shame that one aspect of the business drives the entire sport and that in a case like this, yes, this happens. I am also a realist and after being in the horse business for my entire adult, I also realize the harsh realities about what drives the business and how that impacts the sport. People will very often have, somewhat, ulterior motives. It could be as simple as "wanting to race at the Spa" or wanting to race on a particular day.

The plain old honesty, out there, up front, completely out in the open -- I guess that will happen at Fantasy Land Downs, LOL.

Eric

SentToStud

08-26-2007 06:19 PM

How much more could you ask from the Hard Spun people? They kept this horse on the track all spring and summer and came back yesterday in a Grade 1 on three weeks. They really have nothing to explain. If Porter made more money off his win yesterday, good for him. It's not as if they give Grade 1's away. Since when does a trainer or owner owe anyone an explanation for winning a Grade 1?

Riot	08-26-2007 06:25 PM

Quote:

He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win.

They made an intelligent and profitable financial decision, they made a sound management decision for the horse based upon his abilities, and the trainer prepared the horse so that he blew his competition out of the water in a great race.

What jerks! :D

pgardn

08-26-2007 07:41 PM

Seems maybe the horse and the connections are treated as one.
I think the animal should be treated as the athlete and when an outstanding performance is exhibited its good for racing.

Its hard to hate the horse for me, but easy to dislike owners, or trainers of some. Heck I loved Congaree but Baffert was/is not my favorite for whatever reason.

herkhorse

08-26-2007 07:52 PM

Horses never suck, only some people:p

Danzig

08-26-2007 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Horses never suck, only some people:p

so true. some people make it extremely difficult to root for their horses. i never appreciated the bid much when he was racing, as i thought bud delp...well, you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead so i'll leave it at that.

i'd like curlin a lot more if he was with someone else. well, at least i wouldn't mind when he won so much!

sumitas

08-26-2007 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -BT-

not sure if you were watching the ESPN coverage, but Randy Moss said some sort of inside source said that there was "extra insentive" from whom ever bought Hard Spun's breeding rights if he were to win a Grade 1 before going to the shed. So i guess this was pretty much the only logical choice for that type of race so far along in the season.

Also, did anyone see how apeshit Larry Jones went when someone knocked off his cowboy hat during the celebration with owners and friends in the grandstand. His horse finally won the elusive G1 and he looked like Lou Holtz when some kid stole the hat off his head during a post-game interview..... can't lose my favorite stetson

-bt-

His buddy that caught his hat should have made the play of the day on ESPN.

ArlJim78

08-26-2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He stumbled coming out of the gate...and was drawn outside of the undefeated one-dimensional Cable Boy....who needed the lead to have any shot.

So, after the stumble, had Pino not put Hard Spun to stout restraint, he would have found himself in a bitter head-to-head speed duel.

Hard Spun got loose in the Kentucky Derby -- in a race over-flowing with speed horses -- he is fast enough to get loose in virtually all Grade 1 route races.

However, his connections have been afraid to use his only real weapon (his natural speed) since the Derby. They decided they had to use it in the King's Bishop...because Hard Spun has never had dirt kicked in his face before, and horses often struggle from the off-the-pace when expieriencing that for the first time.

At this time of the year, all these silly one-dimensional sprinter/milers like Flying First Class and Cable Boy have proven they aren't Grade 1 routers -- and the pace of these big races often start to get much slower.

thats a fair point, I do see his speed as a bigger assest as the pretenders fall by the wayside. He could have easily dominated the pace of the Travers.
I not sure he would have won it, but it would have really changed the complexion.

sumitas

08-26-2007 09:38 PM

Well, the owner is a car salesman so their reputation for lack of candor was maintained. Not to mention his outfit.

philcski

08-26-2007 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hail2Reason

It isn't a matter of whether or not he can get 10f. Obviously he can. He just can't beat the top horses at that distance. He has tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly. Curlin has tried and won. AGS has tried and won. They don't have problems getting the distance.

Hard Spun's best distance is 8f and shorter. Look at the last 1/8th of all his route races. He tires.

Are you saying you know better than the trainer who ran him in a 7f race yesterday instead of a 10f race? The Travers is a much more prestigious race than the Kings Bishop but for some reason the trainer went 7f.

If he runs poorly in the Classic nobody will care. Everyone already knows he can't run that far. Great race for him because he can't hurt his reputation, just like Coolmore's miler last year, George Washington.

So your over/under on his BCC would be an extremely indifferent 6th?

I'll bet you on that for whatever you want, and take the "6th or better".

pgardn

08-26-2007 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

Well, the owner is a car salesman so their reputation for lack of candor was maintained. Not to mention his outfit.

Bang.
If Jones read this it would have to hurt.

2Hot4TV

08-27-2007 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninetoone

he should go in the BC Sprint instead of the BCC IMO

The new BC mile race plays right into Hard Spun's wheel house.

Cajungator26

08-27-2007 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

The new BC mile race plays right into Hard Spun's wheel house.

Is it graded and how much is the purse?

robfla

08-27-2007 07:09 AM

$1 million each

UNgraded for now

MisterB

08-27-2007 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

lets look at the big picture... hard spun todays hat flopping favorite of the people .is a great horse.. he should have been battleing it out with street sence the whole time..but hes not of that class..hes been reduced to 7f.. pretty great.... yee haa larry..you gota real goodin ..

He got his G1, that is what he wanted

JRTYG

08-27-2007 08:10 AM

Dead game

In all the triple crown races, or the Haskell, I did not lay one dollar on Hard Spun, as I liked others such as Street Sense, or Any Given Saturday. But...the Kings Bishop, this hard tryer had me out of my seat rooting for him coming down the lane. Especially after being headed and fighting so gamely....

Hard Spun ran a courageous race. I imagine as many heartbreaks he has had in the last couple races, having prior being passed late, it would of been easy to throw in the towel in this race. But he was dead game, after he was headed in the stretch. More than any other race, this race showed his true class. Absolute true class.

A better race than the Travers. This horse never gave up.

Don't count him out in the classic.

slotdirt

08-27-2007 08:19 AM

The one thing I think Hard Spun has shown in virtually every start of his is guts. He's definitely a game animal.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 AM.

Page 3 of 5

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page