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-   -   Street Sense- should he or shouldn't he? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13699)

Coach Pants 05-30-2007 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Look, I 'd love to see Street Sense run as it would add that much more to the race, but I still have a problem with the initial article. Finley works for ESPN, the company that pre-empts horse racing for any sport they can, including softball.

They have a stake in the success of horse racing, yet they do very little to bring it to our homes. There were many stakes this weekend, including one of the most prestegious races in country, The Met Mile. Would it have killed ESPN to show the stretch run and results on Sportscenter?

I see the point of the article, racing needs rivalries and it would help the sport. But to call out Nafzger, like he is somehow responsible for doing this is absurd. Where was Finley when so many talented runners in the last few years have been prematurely retired? Where is his article when trainers scratch out of stake races because their horse carries a pound or two more than they think they should carry?

He was writing about baseball.

disappearingdan_akaplaya 05-30-2007 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
i read that this morning, when i was at 'work'. i think he should run, but i've said that all along....it'll be june, and only his fifth race--why not run? only one derby winner, was he supposed to have a walkover in the preakness? i mean, what was the point behind anyone else running, they couldn't win the tc--going by nafzgers logic that is.



well if i were lucky nuff 2 have him i wouldnt run him. it doesnt matter how many races 2 date hes had this year, to run all 3 in the TC is extremely taxing and he was basically all out last time as was beaten by the better horse. i see no reason to burn him out when theres plenty of other potential pay days down the road. of course i could be wrong and eatin some crow but if they decide to run him right now in elmont against curlin i think hell get dusted

SuffolkGirl 05-30-2007 11:33 AM

I think it is up to the trainer. He knows this horse and has the horse's best interest in mind. He is not trying to burnish his own image for anyone.

While I agree that the sport could use a great rivalry and I would love to see one, I think one should think of the horse first, not the sport.

I believe it was Steve Byk who brought this up on ATRAB, but SS is approaching the "too valuable to run" point. Who knows what the conditions of his insurance policy are.....

ArlJim78 05-30-2007 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Look, I 'd love to see Street Sense run as it would add that much more to the race, but I still have a problem with the initial article. Finley works for ESPN, the company that pre-empts horse racing for any sport they can, including softball.

They have a stake in the success of horse racing, yet they do very little to bring it to our homes. There were many stakes this weekend, including one of the most prestegious races in country, The Met Mile. Would it have killed ESPN to show the stretch run and results on Sportscenter?

I see the point of the article, racing needs rivalries and it would help the sport. But to call out Nafzger, like he is somehow responsible for doing this is absurd. Where was Finley when so many talented runners in the last few years have been prematurely retired? Where is his article when trainers scratch out of stake races because their horse carries a pound or two more than they think they should carry?

you make excellent points. if its going to be such a great public benefit for the sport to have Street Sense in the Belmont, wouldn't it also benefit the sport to include a brief one minute racing update as part of the regular sports broadcast? I'm talking on a regular weekly basis and not only on the eve of one of the TC races.
My god, for baseball, basketball and football they beat those stories to death over and over, i can;t even watch it because its so boring.

Unstable 05-30-2007 01:48 PM

Isn't this the same writer who proclaimed, "with relative certainty," that Street Sense would not win the Kentucky Derby.

The argument that Street Sense should run in the Belmont because it is a $1 million race makes no sense to me if his trainer believes that it would take too much out of him for races later in the year. Races with purses totally much, much more.

Everyone seems to believe that Street Sense has no chance in the Breeders' Cup Classic (against a returning champion). Many of the same people believed that he had no chance in the Kentucky Derby. However, there is no guarantee that Invasor will make it to the BC. Or that he will be the same horse that he was last year, or earlier this year in Dubai.

Sure, I'd love to see Street Sense in the Belmont, but not if it means not seeing him later in the year.

Didn't Carl Nafzger win the Derby and the Classic with Unbridled? If he thinks he can do that again with Street Sense, that's what I really want to see.

slotdirt 05-30-2007 01:52 PM

I think it's pretty safe to say that if there was no Breeders Cup Classic, Street Sense's presence in the Belmont would be a no-brainer.

Antitrust32 05-30-2007 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
One disgusting sentiment expressed to a reporter after Street Sense lost the Preakness was the joy of some NYRA employees -- I took "employees" to mean concession workers and security types, not the management -- that Street Sense had lost, for the crowd would not be totally overbearing on Belmont Stakes Day.

This was reported in a blurb by New York Daily News racing beat writer Jerry Bossert last Monday.


My uncle owns one of the concessions for the Belmont Stakes, and he was not filled with joy when Street Sense lost the preakness. Maybe some of the kids who serve the food were, but Jerry Bossert was so completely wrong with that statement.

Rupert Pupkin 05-30-2007 02:26 PM

I disagree with everything that Finley said. I even strongly disagree with his assumption that it would be better for the sport if Street Sense runs. If they skip this race, SS will probably be around for the rest of the year. We will probably get to see him in the Travers, maybe the JCGC, and the BC Classic. If they run SS in the Belmont, we may never see him again. I think they are much better off skipping the Belmont and having a healthy horse for the rest of the year.
I think that Darley did the smart thing by skipping the Belmont with Bernardini. I think it was the best thing for the both the sport and the horse. I would say the same for SS.

Merlinsky 05-30-2007 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
I disagree with everything that Finley said. I even strongly disagree with his assumption that it would be better for the sport if Street Sense runs. If they skip this race, SS will probably be around for the rest of the year. We will probably get to see him in the Travers, maybe the JCGC, and the BC Classic. If they run SS in the Belmont, we may never see him again. I think they are much better off skipping the Belmont and having a healthy horse for the rest of the year.
I think that Darley did the smart thing by skipping the Belmont with Bernardini. I think it was the best thing for the both the sport and the horse. I would say the same for SS.

That's not a great example. I don't see Bernardini's situation as comparable with SS. They're just not the same type of horse nor do they have the same seasoning. Bernardini was fairly new to this level of competition and 2 TC races would've been a bit much potentially. SS has been handling the tough contests for awhile. The Belmont isn't s'much a 'stallion maker' as it was back in the day and Bernardini'd already won a Classic to go with his pedigree. The work was done. I don't subscribe to the idea that a well-seasoned, healthy/happy horse would face harm going for it in the name of sportsmanship. Now if he's not as bright and shiny as he has been and isn't training as Nafzger would like, totally fine to say they'll go for the big prizes later. If Curlin wins it, their backs will be up against it for the Eclipse is all I'm saying. Of course Nafzger knows how to do a Derby/Classic double.

hockey2315 05-30-2007 11:55 PM

The funny thing is, that if SS wins the photo in the Preakness he's going- it's a no-brainer. . . I know the obvious argument is "well, if the horse has a shot at the triple crown then he HAS to run in the Belmont" - but if it's so taxing, then to run SS in the Belmont wouldn't be putting his best interests first if Nafzger thought it might compromise his health. . . They should just run the damn horse now if he's training well. . . He's probably just as likely to get hurt while training or walking around as he as running in a race so why not run him now if he's healthy. . .

Danzig 05-31-2007 06:07 AM

there is no guarantee of anything. street sense could lay out, and still be out later this year. he could run, win, and be out later...or he could run, lose, be out...or he could run, and run later, win some and lose some.

who knows??? that's why it's under the umbrella known as gambling! if the horse can run, run him. if he can't or shouldn't, don't. but don't keep him in the barn now, if he's ready, as tho that is some guarantee that he'll remain ready down the road! just ask nick zito!


and i agree with the poster who said had he won by a head, rather than lost, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! shame that a few inches means the difference between 'what's best' and running....

Danzig 05-31-2007 06:12 AM

one other question--just how many restricted million dollar races are there for 3 yo's??
and didn't unbridled run in the belmont, en route to the bcc win?

The Indomitable DrugS 05-31-2007 06:33 AM

I believe Unbridled was a soundly beaten 4th to Go and Go in the Belmont.

Unbridled won the Derby conclusively, was a solid 2nd in what I'm almost positive was a very swiftly run Preakness on figures.

I don't believe Unbrideled won a race in between the Derby and the Breeders Cup Classic---and I'm not so sure Nafzger wasn't regretting his decision to run him in the Belmont Stakes...at least until he won the Classic later that year anyway.

Danzig 05-31-2007 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I believe Unbridled was a soundly beaten 4th to Go and Go in the Belmont.

Unbridled won the Derby conclusively, was a solid 2nd in what I'm almost positive was a very swiftly run Preakness on figures.

I don't believe Unbrideled won a race in between the Derby and the Breeders Cup Classic---and I'm not so sure Nafzger wasn't regretting his decision to run him in the Belmont Stakes...at least until he won the Classic later that year anyway.


no wins, he ran 2nd in the super derby and secretariat stakes....

robfla 05-31-2007 06:41 AM


The Indomitable DrugS 05-31-2007 07:03 AM

Thanks for that form of Unbridled.

I remember BTW complaining about how Black Tie Affair stole that 1990 Breeders Cup Classic (he ran a 120 Beyer in victory) ---Unbridled was actually 16 lengths back at the first call.....he closed for 3rd and ran a figure in defeat which was good enough to win the race in some other years.

Nafzger sure did have him ready when he had time to point for one major race with him.

He actually edged out Cee's Tizzy for 2nd in the 1989 Super Derby. I have a friend who posts here send me tape of Cee's Tizzy's Del Mar win at one mile that year. In a two-turn mile race, he carved out fractions of 21 4/5, 44 flat, 1:08 and something like a 1:33 2/5 final time. He was 1/5th of a second off of Percisionist's track record that day. He finished his career with just 6 starts, never winning a stake....but he'll be remembered for siring two-time Breeders Cup Classic winner Tiznow more than anything else.

miraja2 05-31-2007 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I believe Unbridled was a soundly beaten 4th to Go and Go in the Belmont.

Unbridled won the Derby conclusively, was a solid 2nd in what I'm almost positive was a very swiftly run Preakness on figures.

I don't believe Unbrideled won a race in between the Derby and the Breeders Cup Classic---and I'm not so sure Nafzger wasn't regretting his decision to run him in the Belmont Stakes...at least until he won the Classic later that year anyway.

Unbridled's victory in the classic that day also came when Pat Day gave a Calvin B-type ride coming up the rail and then splitting horses in the stretch.
Maybe this bodes well for Street Sense's chances in the BCC. Just like Unbridled he won the Derby from well-off the pace and then ran second in the Preakness.
Unbridled was a good, consistent, horse who almost always ran fairly well and tended to run very well (and have things go his way) on racing's biggest days. Sounds familiar to me.

robfla 05-31-2007 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Thanks for that form of Unbridled.

I remember BTW complaining about how Black Tie Affair stole that 1991 Breeders Cup Classic (he ran a 120 Beyer in victory) ---Unbridled was actually 16 lengths back at the first call.....he closed for 3rd and ran a figure in defeat which was good enough to win the race in some other years.

Nafzger sure did have him ready when he had time to point for one major race with him.

He actually edged out Cee's Tizzy for 2nd in the 1989 Super Derby. I have a friend who posts here send me tape of Cee's Tizzy's Del Mar win at one mile that year. In a two-turn mile race, he carved out fractions of 21 4/5, 44 flat, 1:08 and something like a 1:33 2/5 final time. He was 1/5th of a second off of Percisionist's track record that day. He finished his career with just 6 starts, never winning a stake....but he'll be remembered for siring two-time Breeders Cup Classic winner Tiznow more than anything else.

FTFY ( 1991 )


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