He is by Unbridleds Song and out of an Avenue of Flags mare.
He'll be lucky if he can still walk by next May.

Except Zarkava never ran in the US. Don't horses need at least one North American start to be eligible for an Eclipse Award?

The idea that one race can define the champion of division is an abomination. Racing is not like baseball or basketball, where you win your way up the brackets until you win a championship in a single contest. Racing is more like golf, or NASCAR; it is the body of work that defines a championship. We all know that an unknown can, with a combination of luck and a perfect match of skills and conditions, win the Open, the biggest golf tournament; but winning the Open does not make him the equal or superior of Tiger Woods, even if he beats Tiger in the process.

The Eclipse Awards are United States racing awards; Canada has the Sovereign Awards. Races in other countries should not be considered for Eclipse Awards; they have their own championships for racing there.

Just my own, old-style opinion. I still remember when top horses raced every two or three weeks, like claimers do today, and 6 to 8 weeks was a layoff. You newbies have no idea how wonderfully exciting it was to follow a horse in those days.

Maybe they need a new division for "European horses too good for American horses, but with not enough starts in the US to qualify".

You could've made a case for Grand Couturier, I suppose, but he finished nowhere. Maybe no one should get the award.

I agree - I would never, ever consider a horse's overseas form for a championship. My thinking on Conduit is just based on yesterday. If there were a worthy American turf male who just had a bad day yesterday, then I wouldn't consider Conduit.

On the track...Curlin looked like he would crush..he looked magnificent.

He made a great run around the turn and it looked like he would just keep going.

When he walked back after the race..people in the stands stood and applauded.

That was my view from Section M.

Nor should you. He is a very good dirt horse that wasn't running on the dirt.
On the turf and synthetic, he's just not as good.

When it comes to the dirt, he is/was a pretty good horse. As KG said, there is no way he is even the best horse of the decade, let alone the last 25 years, but that has very little to do with what happened yesterday.

Before they calved off the 'female turf category', we could have given the turf championship to Forever Together with a clear conscience, even if she hadn't beaten the boys the way a Drumtop or All Along did. As it stands, the season isn't quite over yet.

i would question his ability on real dirt...but yeah, you have a point.

LoL I needed Curlin to finish 3rd and started crying when Tiago went by him.

Beaten by Tiago and its the surface?????Maybe Curlin is on a down cycle?

So horses are getting awards for merely turning up, never mind how badly they get arsed?

But Zarkava never ran in North America. The criteria for the award says that a horse has to have made at least one NA start, hence why Singspiel won it even though he never won in the U.S.

Its a north american award, IMO its for races run in north america.

While I understand that sentiment and don't entirely disagree with it, I think that in light of how the voting has always been done and with the precedent being clearly set, she has to be considered. I would have no problem if they changed the criteria and said a horse had to have at least four starts here or something like that in order to be eligible. But with the them always having awarded horses in the past off of only a single start and with that still being the only listed requirement, it doesn't make much sense to penalize Goldikova when she did the same thing as Pebbles, Miesque (2x), Banks Hill, Islington, and Ouija Board (2x).

I'm not sure but I think that the BC Mile was run in North America yesterday. I know a lot of the rest of the country considers California to be another country but officially, it's still in the U.S.

As I just said to Danzig though, I don't necessarily disagree with your feelings but they need to change the criteria on the award then. Until then, if one start was good enough to win it for those others, it's good enough for Goldikova.

I would like to know how the surface is blamed for Curlin's loss other than him finishing 4th. It is one of those things that cant be quantified exactly. His last2 races have not been great and he made his run and got to the lead in the stretch. Maybe, just maybe, he isnt this invincible superhorse that has been fed to us all year. He is a very good horse, there is no shame in simply being a very good horse.

but i think those that won off one start were in a division with no other clear standouts. it's why i can see the turf male award possibly going to conduit, but can't really see goldikova getting it.

It's Johnny.

I am just agreeing with what Baffert already said. Obviously, the horse has had a lot of problems, but when he runs his A race, you don't have to worry about getting beat by a better horse.

Although Im not a Curlin lover, I dont think there is any question that he beats Raven's Pass, and Henry the Navigator on dirt.

Its the result that has to happen. The Americans better be ready to get smoked every single classic thats ran on a synthetic surface. We do not breed good horses to go that far on a grass substitute.

Comedy

Hes exactly like Mineshaft down to his dimwitted jockey. They are the same kind of horse, same talent level. Hes not great, hes certainly very, very good. Even being very good hes proven that he cannot win on grass, and he cannot win on synthetic.

A very good question was posed to me...Can not winning on grass, and not winning on synthetic hurt Curlin's stallion value? I think it has to hurt, why would someone breed to a horse who regardless of their outstanding talent couldnt win on either of those surfaces?

I look forward to the next superstar Euro 3yo coming over and beating our best next year in the classic. It will not be until CHD holds the Breeders Cup the Americans win.

Breathtaking

How great is Zarkava, wow.

The only reason Midnight Lute won is because it was synthetic and he is a turf horse. Well at least thats what I am gathering reading all these threads about the non turf races and the winners.

Curlin is a very nice horse for sure but I dont think he was as good as Mineshaft on natural ability, and I definitely think he gets dusted by Ghostzapper. Thats just horses from the past 6 years.

Curlin never whipped a horse like Easy Goer, which Sunday Silence did. Curlin is not in the same class as those two horses.

i don't think his one start on both surfaces will hurt his stud value. also, smart strike is inside the top ten for synthetic sires, so it seems the genes are there.

Baffert said he'll run on anything. He is very big, and bothered by many starting gates(Del Mar etc.)

Hi Silver Charm! :{>:

:D

This is a good point, and this thread probably did not even need to be created. It is probably best to ignore people like Tessitore.
He just said it so many damn times yesterday, that I got pissed and simply couldn't ignore it any longer.

he was absolutely nerve wracking. just think if big brown had been there. good lord. we were spared further nauseating hyperbole for sure. bad enough having just the one..ahem..superhorse in there.
but hey, curlin did beat that monster from the far east!! :D

Thank you Racing Gods ... was sooooooooo satisfying seeing that 'champion' (in-a-bottle-of-Winstrol) get exposed yesterday by a couple good Euros ... and even the mediocre Tiago, to boot. The only disappointing thing about the contest was the fact that Big Brownroid wasn't in there to take his inevitable beating too.

Curlie (and Big Brownroid, for that matter) was clearly nothing special when he wasn't getting his regular 'roid fix. Couldn't care less how much money he made beating the usual mules this season. He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as a truly brilliant recent champion like Ghostzapper.

He says Silver Charm was the toughest(an overachiever.)

Seamus your gonna be next man, dont break our hearts next year

Heck, you can even take it a step further, imo, KG. If SS and HS were not pharmacologically-enhanced with an anabolic steroid last year, you really can't say with any certainty that Curlie was even the best of his crop.

Curlie literally looked like the incredible hulk on four legs at Monmouth Park last October ... likely the result of a long 'roid regimen.

Were you rooting for the 'champ' yesterday, DaHoss9698? lol



Watching those Euros have their way with the overrrated Curlie ... what a GREAT way to usher out the despicable steroid abuse era of thoroughbred racing in NA.

Or it could be the fact that he's a large horse. I was at GP when he broke his maiden under trainer Helen Pitts ... believe me, he's a big horse.

Ghostzapper should have been renamed Milkshake

No, you weren't the only one. It was making me nuts. I was happy Curlin ran this year; it was a lot of fun watching him win Dubai, and watching him try the turf, etc., but I don't think if there weren't legal issues around that last 20 percent of him that we would have seen this. Did you notice when Jackson started to say something about without the fans there's no sport he stumbled over his words and it ended up garbled? Because I think by that point even he couldn't spout something so blatantly untrue. It's not about us and never is.

That aside, it was still a nice way to spend the evening (I had to work Sat and watched the races on DVR). Yay for everyone coming back safe!

Does anyone know how many European horses ran versus how many American? The math nerd in me is curious how the win percentages Euro vs. American came out.