Our money is worth a lot more than it was a few weeks ago

Cannon Shell is a proponent of the failed supply side experiment? A couple of problems though with your real world scenario. Let me fix it for you:

American Companies are employing more and more foreign workers leaving many American workers broke so they spend on credit for foreign goods that are more expensive because of the weakened dollars caused by our lack of tax revenues by our American Government that spends too much.

There, i would say that is more real world.

I think you may be referring to Catholics requiring good works and accepting Jesus as your savior where some Protestants require only accepting Christ as your savior... raping and pillaging does not exclude entrance thru the Pearly gates as long as in the end, you accept Christ as your savior.

If you are Catholic, you got to spend some time suffering in Purgatory (not skiing). You just gotta watch everyone else ski just to make sure you suffer a bit before you can hit the pearly gates.

That covers it.
sorta.

but I digress...

Thats not America's doing. Our monetary policy has done nothing but weaken the dollar.

Remember, the recent resurgence of the dollar has come primarily against European currencies and thats simply because it is becoming apparent that the European Central bank is going to have to do something soon.

I went to Catholic school but slept through most of religion

71% of a Euro

57% of a Pound

I ain't planning a trip just yet, but it's a welcomed improvement.

I did too.
But I took copious notes.
The priests and nuns did not
like me. Nuns battered my hands with rulers.

Thought I was a pest that asked too many questions.
(aside: sorry mom, really)

Cant imagine anyone would think I was long-wnded brat.

Yeah the poor American worker. Like the ones that are driving American automakers out of business because of unskilled labor making $100 an hour and retiring at 50? American companies are to blame for the plight of the poor american worker forced to use their credit cards to buy flat screen tv's. The ones who drive $50000 leased cars and were victims of the awful mortgage men who tricked them into believing they too could live in a $400k house on $38000 a year. What exactly is the % of American companies that have foreign operations?

Your solution is to elect Obama to tax the heck out of the rich to keep up with that out of control govt spending?

Real world is living within your means and stop blaming the someone else for all your problems when those means are exceeded.

The British economy is about to get worse than ours. They have their own housing crisis too.

Major short point:

The major redistribution of wealth by a government
is the precursor to failure. Dont work.

Sister Mary Cletus was my Mother Superior - she was the one with the big paddle.:)

We've never had this major redistribution of wealth. Cuba did. These countries people call Socialist(Scandinavia and the other Euros with national healthcare) are doing fine. They aren't failing. That's because they did not have any major redistribution of wealth. Oprah making 2.5 billion( instead of 3 billion) is not a major redistribution of wealth. Your claim is probably true, but you're too quick to call something a major redistribution of wealth.

As much as I would like to have a stronger middle class.
You cant make it happen through government.
That is really the point.

Scandanavia is probably a very bad example being so homogenous...
as is Japan.
We have a very different dynamic here.
The mixing pot thing.

And health care is a horribly difficult problem.
If you got a plan, they need you in Washington now.
People are living too damn long. Major bucks spent
on older people instead of kids early on.
Major research on drugs to keep people alive longer,
but not necessarily help with the quality of life.
I plan to off myself before this happens.

Why do you stick to this worn out elitist myth that supply side economics actually works? Check out the relationship between production and wages from 1980 until today and you tell me that it has been fair to the working class. Inflation adjusted wages have barely moved in the last 30 years while the price of everything has gone up significantly. During the same period of time, check out the rate in which CEO wages have risen. Bottom line? American production has increased but nothing has "trickled down".

So you bring up the cliche of the overextended middle class begging for handouts and living beyond their means while not addressing how it got to be this way and why the trend has been exasperated over the last thirty years. Bring out FACTS not cliches.

If you want to bring up Obama, the FACT is that tax wise, 95% of the population will benefit from his plan.

A lot of people say that, but they don't follow through with it.

I don't know why being homogenous would make the difference you seem to think it does. They've made a stronger middle class through government, and they are doing fine. Maybe what you should be saying is we need to get some of our social problems taken care of(be more responsible parents, and stop breeding criminals.) Probably no economic plan is gunna work when you have men letting women raise kids alone. BTW, if Conservatives had it their way, you wouldn't be Middle Class(as a teacher.) You wouldn't have a good retirement system either. What kind of retirement system do teachers have in these private schools (the schools Conservatives got such a hard on for.) Seems government has enabled you to be middle class. So, don't tell me you can't strengthen the middle class through government. You're a perfect example of it. You'd be struggling to make it with just private school pay.

I would not look forward to 20 years of strict constitutionalism that would have a good chance of changing the past 35 years.

i know i'm exasperated.

and obamas plan is to continue bushes tax cuts, essentially keep the whole tax scheme we've had in place, so i don't know what plan he's got you think is going to change things. of course once some of those tax cuts expire, he's probably going to jack them up to pay for all those new programs he's tossing out there like cheap candy to a baby. not sure how tax increases and new social programs that the middle class has to pay for won't exacerbate the whole less money from your pay check problem.

i don't see that happening, regardless of who wins the election. they'd never make it through the process to get on the bench. nominating isn't the same as naming a judge.

remember now cannon, when you say anything 'republican', it's elitist mythical republican talking points, but if you state anything 'democratic', you're an intelligent open minded person who has seen the light.:rolleyes:

You dont know his plan.

Factcheck.org

I was just looking at factcheck... Now Obama DID vote for a measure to take taxes back to the pre-2001 level. (which would have moved the 25% bracket back to 28%).

Now he's proposing tax cuts for those levels, which is a flip flop... but I'd rather him flip flop this way...

Here are both candidates plan...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1839

The BIGGEST differences in the two plans, IMO, is that McCain wants to lower corporate tax $ and Obama wants to raise corporate tax $$..

The question I have... is if we increase taxes on corporations will us as Employees have less opportunities to get raises and better pay because my company will have less $$?

good research! one other question

the corporate tax also hits the small business people...that are not typically thought of when you talk of Corporate Tax. How would this effect them and their employment plans and their ability to provide good salaries and raises?

I do. As a lifelong registered Republican who has never voted for a Democratic president or senator in my life, I'm done with the uberconservative bullshit. The GOP screwed McCain, and insulted my intelligence, forcing that useless VP choice on him. Over the past many years, although I've liked the guy, I have never seen McCain as presidential material. And he still isn't.

I can't wait to cast my vote for Obama this go round.

Spoken like a true jumping bean.....or do you prefer setting yourself on fire and jumping through hoops?

[quote=Antitrust32]I was just looking at factcheck... Now Obama DID vote for a measure to take taxes back to the pre-2001 level. (which would have moved the 25% bracket back to 28%).

Now he's proposing tax cuts for those levels, which is a flip flop... but I'd rather him flip flop this way...

Here are both candidates plan...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1839

The BIGGEST differences in the two plans, IMO, is that McCain wants to lower corporate tax $ and Obama wants to raise corporate tax $$..

The question I have... is if we increase taxes on corporations will us as Employees have less opportunities to get raises and better pay because my company will have less $$?[/QUOTE]

Raises and better pay? Again, inflation adjusted, the only wages that have gone up in relationship to production over the last 30 years are CEO wages. Average wages adjusted for inflation have remained flat.

As far as far as tax policy, it is proven that Obama's plan IS NOT the same as McCain's. I will post the differences in a second.

You couldn't post the same in a second.

Despite our differences, much more unites us than divides us. We are fellow Americans, an association that means more to me than any other .

How can you argue with that :)

I wish someone would post the recipe for success...

I can say that vomit inducing posts do not become you.

How?

Commercials have taught us to spell Relief.....R-O-L-A-I-D-S.

I never ever said they were the same plan... and I posted both of the two plans with the link. I said IMO the biggest difference was the Corporate taxes.

If I got a 6% raise this year.. and next year my corporate company will have less $$ because they are paying more taxes.. Will I only get a 3% raise next year?

If that is the case I'd much rather have the higher raise than the $502 I'll save with Obamas tax plan.

I really have no clue how it will effect that.

Must have been the excitement that you have returned...but I digest.

Good one...thank you so much.

I return only to leave...I want one last shot at all the fucl< faces here.

If Companies suddenly decided to pass along all of those corporate tax breaks to the middle class (as supply side/trickle down econ suggests) statistics say that would be a big departure from what has happened since 1980. Do you really think that is going to happen? You seem like an intelligent person. Why would you believe this?

I run a business. If i were given a tax break i would not give my customers lower prices but I may keep my prices the same which over a period of years is in effect passing along my good fortune. This hatred of business is misplaced.

There is no hatred of business. I am a capitalist. Its just that i realize the failed experiment of Reaganomics. Supply side economics, Reaganomics or Trickle down has done nothing but erode the middle class and create enormous swirling deficit. What more evidence do you need that it doesnt work?

"I MAY keep my prices the same" isnt that the same as saying that you MAY NOT? And isnt that the problem? When given the choice, human nature tends toward greed. Not for all, but certainly for a majority. This is indisputable.

So basically greed is counteracted by heavy taxation? This is a global ecomomy now. The more you tax big business, the less incentive there is to keep jobs here. The middle class is pandered to and told how bad they have it yet the middle class lives far greater than it did 40 years ago.

nothing wrong with Reaganomics or greed, the only problem was that spending was supposed to be controlled, and that never happened.