Derby Trail Forums - Gov Haley demands rebel flag removal

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Tell me it was more about obsolete farm equipment and not states rights.

Funny how states rights is a central theme to the bulls.hit that's occurred this week by the Alinskiites.

And that's what we're dealing with. They hate this country and everything it stood for.

They must break us down to the point the American flag is removed. And judging by the mentality of a few on this website it is bound to happen.

We have lost the war of words. We either admit we're slaves or we fight.

Me?

I'm going off the grid.

I'll check in occasionally but the Internet is going to be taken down and brought back with a new modified version.

And the pro-gov idiots will cheer with glee as natural law gets repeatedly trampled upon.

Nature always wins in the end. Cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants II (Post 1032949)

MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.

FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".

FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom.

FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

MYTH - The South revered slavery.

FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

FACT - Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.

MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.

FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.

The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.

Coach, thank you for the history lesson (I am being sincere when I say that), many of the points you raise I am familiar with (the Lincoln plans to deport blacks I hadn't heard before) but I don't base my opposition to the rebel flag on the civil war and other events of that era, I base it on what that flag has become. In the late 60's, I was part of the freedom marches in various southern states and came face to face with racial hatred, folks wearing white sheets and carrying the rebel flag cursed and threatened us daily, poured hot coffee and urine on us, struck us with fists and ball bats. To them, that flag represented their hatred and racism, to us it came to represent the same. Reality is 99% perception and the perception of many is that the rebel flag is a racist symbol. Just as in Germany where the swastika was hijacked by the Nazis and turned into a symbol of racial hatred there, the rebel flag has been hijacked by hatred here. While what you say may be 100% true, perceptions are perceptions and both sides may be uniformed of the actual history but that has become irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 1032960)

Yes and just about every group who used the confederate flag to incite racial hatred was funded and/or infiltrated by government officials.

Bringing up the past repeatedly to give certain people an upper hand in debate. Like I had anything to do with slavery.

It's an Alinsky tactic. I'm really fed up with liberals in general. I don't like chicken hawk republican war mongers either but this has been 6 years of non-stop divide and conquer by this administration and its supporters.

They don't want equality. They want vengeance. They don't want to follow the Constitution. They want to delve into intentional deviant semantics.

It brings out pure hatred in me. These people aren't good. They don't have the best interests of this country at heart. Their solutions don't produce any semblance of prosperity and sustainability whatsoever.

They are ensuring that white people will be the new slaves in the 22nd century. There are more minority children in this country than white children.

It's over, somer. Whites will suffer the same brutality, if not worse, than black people and any other minority you can think of.

Why? Because we, as a species, are stupid. We never learn from our mistakes. We try to re-write history and erase the truth.

And we're all worse off for it and I refuse to be around people like GenuineRisk and Danzig.

They're awful people.

Take care and good luck to the rest of you who still have some common sense. Keep your family close in these coming years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants II (Post 1032953)

We have lost the war of words. We either admit we're slaves or we fight.

Me?

I'm going off the grid.

I'll check in occasionally but the Internet is going to be taken down and brought back with a new modified version.

And the pro-gov idiots will cheer with glee as natural law gets repeatedly trampled upon.

Nature always wins in the end. Cheers.

Cheers, coach. This path sounds better every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis (Post 1032943)

I didn't say one had anything at all in common with the other, you simp. I said that there are as many people (mostly deeply religious folks) that choose to be offended by the rainbow flag as there are people who choose to be offended by the stars and bars.

If feelings are the top priority this country has nowadays (you yourself haven't taken 5 minutes to STFU about it in a week) it's hypocritical to embrace one action and bathe in the schadenfreude of another.

But who would expect anything less from you and GR?

Don't bother responding to me. Please.

no, they don't have anything in common, which is why i said what i said. you suggest both are capable of causing bad feelings, when in fact we all know only one actually has a history of doing so.
i don't want the confederate flag gone over 'feelings'. i've always said it had no place at capitals and the like. i'm glad everyone is catching up to that now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 1032972)

Cheers, coach. This path sounds better every day.

well, bye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis (Post 1032928)

The funny thing is, there are as many tax paying, liberty loving Americans that find THAT flag offensive (myself NOT included). Good luck getting IT taken down. The hypocrisy of the fringe far left is boundless. So worried about people's feelings and the *hurt* that a flag causes to people who choose to be offended by it. lolololol

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of Tom Wopat's gorgeousness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 1033010)

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of Tom Wopat's gorgeousness.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-odd-i...te-battle-flag

Take note when the flag suddenly became popular, and why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants II (Post 1032967)

Yes. Because.

"Nikki Haley went from tea party star to a leader of the New South"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...d8a_story.html

as if one contradicts the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 1033391)

Yes. Because.

i'd imagine anyone flying an isis flag would be judged.

as for salon, i didn't know that they spoke for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 1033396)

as for salon, i didn't know that they spoke for everyone.

Yeah, they're ultra far left. Probably best to ignore them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 1033403)

Yeah, they're ultra far left. Probably best to ignore them.

:tro:

Saw this at CNN website:D:D

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/kkk-rally...nfederate-flag

Why the north side? Maybe they could extend an invite to westboro to join in the fun...

it seems there is still a myth some hold about lee and his slaves. hope you'll read this:

http://www.nps.gov/arho/learn/histor...re/slavery.htm

'Mrs. Custis also persuaded her husband to free several women and children.'

When Custis died in 1857, Robert E. Lee—the executor of the estate—determined that the slave labor was necessary to improve Arlington's financial status. The Arlington slaves found Lee to be a more stringent taskmaster than his predacessor. Eleven slaves were “hired out” while others were sent to the Pamunkey River estates. In accordance with Custis's instructions, Lee officially freed the slaves on December 29, 1862.

take note of the date they were freed- the emancipation proclamation took effect on Jan 1 1863.

Abraham Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation on September 22nd, 1862. It stipulated that if the Southern states did not cease their rebellion by January 1st, 1863, then Proclamation would go into effect.

and arlington had already been siezed before all that occurred. lee's 'manumission' really meant nothing by that point.

after the war ended, a paper was written reaffirming the just owning of slavery, that it was right and moral. lee was one of the signatories of that paper.

the south did a great job many years after the war ended of turning lee into some honorable hero. he wasn't, he was very much a white supremacist who believed in slavery, supported it, made money from it and fought to keep it.

Yes you do!!:D:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigrun (Post 1033803)

Yes you do!!:D:D

Too bad that fabric wasnt put to such a use 154 years ago. Might have saved some lives, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 1034261)

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/26...html?referrer=

An excellent article.

Quote:

The harder call concerns Robert E. Lee. Should schools and other facilities be named after the great Confederate general, or should his name be removed and replaced?

I vote for Lee's name to stay..:tro:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigrun (Post 1034282)

I vote for Lee's name to stay..:tro:

I don't.
I have one good thing to say about Lee. He surrendered rather than turn to a guerilla campaign. His actions toward the u.s. deserve no praise, his taking free black men and women back with his army when fleeing Meade after Gettysburg was dishonorable. Lee was no state soldier, and lost many troops to desertion whenever he ventured out of Virginia. Had he only wanted to protect his home state, he'd not have gone on the offensive into Maryland and Pennsylvania.
Some people did a bang up job turning a loser into a hero, and a general who did what others failed to do into a drunk. Amazing how far grants reputation has fallen after all the time he was loved and admired. Reconstruction helped the white south, but it also reconstructed history.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/south-car...nfederate-flag

Bet this 100 people would disagree with you:D

Quote:

"They're trying to take our history away," said Justin L., who declined to give his full last name but said he is with the Texas Coal Rollers Society, a diesel truck club. "We're trying to make a movement, trying to encourage people to keep flying what they do because it's the history of this country."

He said flying the flag is not racist.

"It's not hate, man, it's just heritage," he said. "It's what our country was founded on so we want to keep it going ... don't give in to them."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/hou...#photo-8259665

Speaking of heritage, flags, symbols and names got this today:D

PRICELESS

I think all sports fans will get a kick out of this letter written to the Chicago Tribune....
No matter which side you are on in the matter of renaming the Washington Redskins, this is funny. This guy is hilarious…

Here is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.

Dear Mr. Page: I agree with our Native American population. I am highly insulted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.

Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.

The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white folk.

The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives.

I am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.

Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh Pirates!

Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.

The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children.

The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our children.

The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message to our children.

So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the do-nothing Congress loves..

As a die hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers (especially when they play Southern California . Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???) :)
I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the “Foreskins” to better represent their community, paying tribute to the dick heads in Congress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigrun (Post 1034292)

Bet this 100 people would disagree with you:D

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/hou...#photo-8259665

i don't care! :D

they can fly what they want, and think it means something other than what it meant.
my beef with it has only ever been with states flying it. if individuals want to make up history, it just fits in with them making up science. i doubt those flying it 'believe' in evolution...but it would be nice if they realized that when they say 'it's our heritage' what heritage they claim.

as for the redskins....(and the other mascots of animals, vikings (which isn't even correct, viking is a verb-they 'went viking') i never thought it was that big of a deal.
and then a few months back, when the daily show finally aired the skit with the native americans, that's when i changed my mind. when the one guy said something like ' the two most used mascots are animals and indians', well.....
besides, dan snyder says he'll sell the team if they make him change it, so for the millionth time, make him change it!!!

These state flags are offensive and must be removed.

Minnesota

and Massachusetts

Elizabeth Warren and Andrea Smith were unavailable for comment.

Quote:

We should keep Lee’s name on institutions that reflect postwar service, like Washington and Lee University, where he was president. But we should remove Lee’s name from most schools, roads and other institutions, where the name could be seen as acceptance of what he did and stood for during the war.

I'm cool with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 1034304)

These state flags are offensive and must be removed.

Elizabeth Warren and Andrea Smith were unavailable for comment.

Actually, their problematic imagery is not a new topic:

http://www.tmealf.com/ICV-23.pdf

What's hilarious about the right wing losing their marbles over the prospect of the Confederate battle flag being removed from government property is that they're taking all of these other things (streets named after Confederate luminaries, other flags using Native American symbology) and saying, "Oh, so these will be next!" as a kind of "Isn't this crazy," but the reaction ends up being people who wouldn't think twice about the Minnesota flag otherwise saying, "Oh, yeah, now that you mention it, the flag IS pretty racist..."

Kind of like how all the protesters over The Last Temptation of Christ did nothing more than make a really really boring film more profitable than it should have been, because all they did was draw attention to it.

The article I linked to is interesting, particularly the section on the New Mexico flag. Whites who lose their minds over "Piss Christ" have no problem slapping a sacred Native American symbol on toilets.