Crafty CT is your value in NY. That horse was very very good.

Curious, what stallions do you think are a bargain?

Cannon you and I agree on a lot. Last night I was reading the ad in the Thorougbred Times and set in my mind what I thought they should be standing for.
I had Marquetry ok at 7500.
I had Max at 3500.
I had Value at 10,000
I had Leroi at 10 grand
I had Medag at 30 grand
I had Doneraile at 7500

They are all priced a little high.

Leroi at 10K? He is from one of the best active turf families in recent years and was as game as they come. He may be a bit high now, but I'd say $20-$25K.

I think Birdstone is crazy good value at 10 grand.
You are talking about a horse with all the things you look for in a sire.
He won early and fast in his debut at age two.
He won fast at a mile in a grade one at two.
He won at a mile and a half in a classic at age three
He won at a mile and a quarter in a grade one at age three.

I know the knocks on Grindstone, but he occasionally sires fast horses. And his mare also produced an Oaks winner in Bird Town which shows me that he wasn't just a fluke production by the mare.
Don't be surprised if he sires some damn good runners and soars in price before hes all done.

The key is turf, which is very unattractive to US breeders.

Three words...

Say.. Florida.. Sandy.. !!

Seriously though, now he's off to Korea, but one I loved in NY who was WAY underappreciated and underutilized was Judge TC...

I've heard mixed things about his conformation, but have never seen him myself. Is he crooked up front?

A few very small breeders I know where delighted that they could get a horse like Birdstone for that price.

Birdstone is pretty small and small doesn't sell well.

I actually like Value Plus if you were breeding commercially

There are plenty of good, solid stallions that are just not going to attract much commercial attention like Judge TC.

Randall,
I just looked for Crafty CT at he stallion register at nybreds. I can't find him.
What farm has him?
btw, I think Best of Luck at Highcliff has been throwing some good ones lately. So has Kelly Kip.

wasn't he sent to Contemporary farms?

I wish Sam the best of luck. But at $40k, I am not sure he is gonna be the best bargain out there. His book will fill, but may not early and may not for the full advertised price. He is by Giant's Causeway, but that may not be the best thing since he is an unproven sire of sires. For my money, I'd go to a son of Storm Cat before a son of a son of Storm Cat.

Depending on the match I think Dixie Union may be the best value at $40k in Kentucky.

Pais,
I'll look there. He's not in the stallion register (updated weekly).
thanks.

he might not be there anymore but I think that is where he was retired to.

thx cajun...guess he moved

Guess so... I'm glad I looked him up though. He's got a God's thumbprint! Do you know how rare that is? My appendix QH had one... they're good luck. :cool:

Thanks Cajun,
I didn't think he was in NY anymore.
For a Crafy Prospector, have a look at Gold Miner's Gold. He's at Metropolitan.
He's also the sire of my 3yo...Makeitright.

A.P. Indy @ 300k -sounds crazy but they sell and every mare that was in foal to him to sell at auction brings 1 mill+. If your mare fits and you have the money, I'd rather have him then Kingmambo at similar price or Dynaformer at 150.

Officer @ 15k- 1st crop has run well and should do better as they mature. Also they are popular at auctions.

Eurosilver @ 12500k- Well bred with a nice cross of speed and stamina, priced nice for commercial as well as breed to race people. May be the next Grand Slam if his 1st crop runs well.

Flatter @ 5k- Not really commercial but worth a shot at the price especially if you need speed or size for your mare.

Include @ 12500- May really take off as the 1st crop goes longer. Great mix of speed and stamina except the dam is the speed side.

Jump Start @ 10k- Just think he'll work out.

Medallist @ 8500 - They did not get a huge amount of mares (85 or so) but freakishly fast speed on speed pedigree. If the 1st crop runs early, he may get hot.

Pleasant Tap @ 10k- Solid sire for the race to run people. Most likely not going to get you a 2 year old but he produces year after year.

Three Wonders @5K- Gets nice horses that should stretch and turf also

Put it Back@ 5k- alot to like at the price but are limited to sprinting for the most part.

Bartok @ 5k -great stats with awful mares

Prime Timber @ 3500k - They seem to get to the races and run which is all you can ask for for a cheap NY bred sire.

Catineus @ 6500k - Gets lots and lots of mid range runners. Not very commercial though

Do you want to be my very best friend? LOL

I like Catineus... he sired one of my faves, Nolan's Cat. :D

I don't think that sounds crazy at all. :)

Do you see Aptitude being decreased in price? (or deserving to be so!)

I'd put Maria's Mon on my list.

Catineus isindeed a good one. He's at Highcliff.

Not sure what to make of that. LOL

LOL, just kidding with you, but I LOVE Dixie Union as a sire.

I think he is a well priced stallion and is getting nice mares. He seems to be holding a very nice commercial value as well.

First Sam has zero chance of a full book at $40K. They will fill it at around $25K.

Albert the Great will be the best value. The price though is going up significantly from $8500. He is starting to throw some real runners.

The best values right now are Dynaformer at $150,000 and Point Given at $30,000. Breeding to cheap stallions is a waste of money.

Not true. Gee, I wonder why you like the 3 above stallions. Could it be that all three of them stand at Three Chimney's? :eek: :rolleyes:

Breeding to cheaper stallions a waste of money? LOL!
Tell that to the breeders that went to Distorted Humor when he was cheap.
Genetics are there, not the "hype", nor the dollar fees.
Breeding is all about genetics.

Albert the Great is the real deal. How many stallions can say all eight sires in their fourth generation are chef-de-race stallions.

Dynaformer went up $50K this year but l think he had an ok year. :)

Point Given is obviously a great bargain.


If I was plugging all TC, why didn't I mention Smarty? The three mentioned are considered by many the three best values. One is the best cheaper stallion, one the best mid-priced, and Dynaformer is $150K cheaper than AP Indy and $350K cheaper than Storm Cat, and most in the business recognize those three as the top 3 stallions in the business.

Oh, PLEASE. Give me a break already... I like ALL THREE of those stallions as well, but we all know why YOU mentioned those three. :rolleyes:

They are a waste of money if you have quality broodmares. Younger stallions that are cheap are worth taking a risk, but established cheap stallions are a waste of money.

If you broodmares are average than obviously you want cheaper stallions.

F-ing El Duque is hurt. F uck.

Nobody takes a shot breeding a quality broodmare to a cheaper stallion. Who's to say you wouldn't end up with something decent? The fact is that nobody ever takes that route.

Which stallions are better in those price ranges?

Lets put Albert the Great at $12,500

PG is $30K

Dyaformer $150K.

I agree that established "cheap" stallions are a waste.
Believe me that my mares aren't "average".
All I was trying to say is that I don't look at the dollar costs before I look for genetics that play well to their lines. I also look for a sire that has strengths that compensate for their weaknesses.
Good value is there but it takes some searching.
No, I'm not breeding for the auctions. that's where you need to try to get back your costs before the "reserve not attained" comes calling.
Look at Timonium's sales and you'll see what I mean.

Like I said, I like all three of those stallions as well, although I think there are a few additional choices in those price ranges. I like Gone West for $125,000, More Than Ready for $30,000, Mr. Greeley himself for $35,000... etc.

I also like Monarchos for $7,500.

Plenty of choices in those price ranges, obviously, but interesting to me that you picked Three Chimney's stallions.

I'll play this game. I like Distorted Humor @ $150k, Dixie Union @ $40k, and City Zip @ $15k.

You know, Thoroughbred Times, I think, used to have a contest every year with first crop sires. It's broken up into three prices categories and you pick one in each section <$7,500 or so, $7,500-$20,000, $20,000+... Something like that...

I entered it one year but never got an E-mailing or anything to update the progress of the runners, etc...

Sounds like it would appeal to lots here based on this discussion...