[quote]Where did that debt come from? Far more to it than just numbers. What items made up Bush II's rise? What items made up the rise after November 2008?

[quote=Riot;752281]Oh, geez, the numbers you post have validity - everyone else's are just numbers.

9/11 and building up the military that Clinton dismantled to balance the budget cost a pretty penny.

Despite what anyone else says, I applaud Bush for going into Iraq. If he hadn't, what kind of powder keg would we be dealing with today with that Hitleresque nut job still in power?!~

Repubs pandering to the left during the 2nd half of the Bush administration and buying into Democratic reckless spending philosophy.

You tell me what items made up the rise after 11/08. I'd say it's just some more reckless spending on the backs of the American tax payer.

We should get the hell out of Afghanistan - talk about a worthless cause. Fly the drones, take out the poppy fields, weapons, terrorists and bring the soldiers home. They are dying needlessly, and there doesn't seem to be any Democrats crying about it like they did with the war in Iraq.

I feel the sorriest for the youngest generation - they are going to be paying dearly for the debt that is accumulating exponentially with no end in sight. It has to stop. There has to be some brakes on this runaway spending train.

[quote]No. That's not the point. Nobody is debating the debt numbers. We've all posted the same numbers. The debate here is about who increased that debt.

For example, it's ridiculous and false to say Obama increased the debt "this" much, when billions of those monies spent in 2009-2010 during his administration were not monies he approved and spent.

Billions were approved by Bush - the wars, the first stimulus, TARP, etc - all that spending was created by Bush, but those monies were not all spent and done with in the last 5 weeks of his administration. Obama couldn't have recalled spending those monies if he'd wanted to, it was passed law, it was set those monies would be spent even if McCain had won. And that was a Bush II spend.

So look at Obama's spending during his administration, but you cannot take the billions spent in 2009 and 2010, due to first stimulus, TARP, bank bailouts, Bush's war commitments, etc and blame Obama (or McCain if it were McCain) for that. That's crazy.

[quote=Riot;752303]Oh, sure, let's drag out the "Let's blame Bush" chestnut. Guess Bush didn't inherit a tanking economy when he took office and then get hit with the 9/11 disaster 8 months into office?!~

Should the projected 2011 deficit be blamed on Bush? Obama is going to balance the budget by trimming $1.1 trillion over 10 years.

The numbers don't wash.

Printhess...

there is really no use when it comes to debating with Riot... the bigoted hater of all things America.

[quote=Princess Doreen;752319]Riot"s favorite saying "It is all Bush's fault".

Please quit picking on Riot. Riot isnt a Bigot but a Bimbo. All other people are hateful according to Riot.

Uh, yeah, well we will when some try to blame Obama for the deficit caused by Bush starting 2 wars, the first stimulus, and TARP :D

Didnt Obama say he was going to send the troops home during his campaign? Sure looks like the troops are home. Actions speak louder than words. Im counting the days until November 2012 get here. Hopefully the Obama circus will come to an end.


Lots of promises made, still lots of work to be done:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...amas-promises/

[quote=Princess Doreen;752288]seriously? how many trillions spent, how many lives lost, yet to be lost, over that guy? he was a chained dog. and i guess you saw that the big whistleblower on wmd's has now said it was all made up. that was the biggest lie fed to this country in years.

[quote=Danzig;752718]Colin Powell was the biggest convincer of them all that WMD's existed. And,
I haven't been convinced that there weren't WMD's but there was enough time to spirit them away somewhere, somehow, someway.

Um well hasnt the deficit gone up under Obama? Obama has been Pres for two years now.

Yes, I already brought up that point with the amount the deficit has gone up, but RIOT says it's all Bush's fault.

[quote=Princess Doreen;752721]you do remember colin powell resigning after, right? when he found he'd been duped? used by bush and co? that region is worse off now, we're worse off now, because of that stupid series of decisions. i was no saddam fan, but his ouster wasn't worth all that it cost us, and is still costing us. and like i said above, we would most likely be out of afganistan by now had we focused all our energies there to begin with. so it drags on now, our longest war ever.

It is alway Bush's fault if you ask Riot. Two years into his term and it is still all Bush's fault.

yeah, he had eight years to eff everything up, go figure that obama hasn't fixed it after two. :rolleyes:
it's not all bushes fault, it's not all obamas fault, when times were good it wasnt all due to clinton. it's so funny that those defending obama blame the last guy, and the guys defending the last guy see no reason to avoid blaming obama
oh, hilarity, thy name is politics.

[quote=Danzig;752725]I do remember Colin Powell going over, in great detail before the UN, a video of trucks supposedly hauling WMD's. If, indeed, he was duped into that deductive reasoning by someone else, then he did the right thing to resign. It would be justified to call him an idiot.

Afghanistan will never be stabilized - never, ever, ever irregardless if we hadn't gone into Iraq. We'll be fighting and dying and spending trillions in Afghanistan well into your grandchildren's adult life if someone doesn't get the message to cut our losses and get the hell out of there.

[quote=Princess Doreen;752732]i wouldn't call powell and idiot. he was sold a bill of goods by bush and cheney, et al.

this was on my home page when i got home today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41609536...deastn_africa/

LONDON — An Iraqi defector who went by the codename “Curveball” has publicly admitted for the first time that he made up stories about mobile bioweapons trucks and secret factories to try to bring down Saddam Hussein’s regime.

also:

As it turned out, Powell was not told that one of the sources for the information — “Curveball" — had been flagged by the Defense Intelligence Agency as suspect and untrustworthy.




and, as i said elsewhere, afganistan was most likely a mistake. that country has always been unkind to invaders. at any rate, it certainly didn't help all those years that afganistan was an afterthought, iraq taking all the focus, the money, the efforts. how much longer now in afganistan? who knows? and trillions spent, gone forever. and for WHAT??? so bush could dress up in a flight suit and play army. yay.

:tro::tro:

We should remember that ole conservative hymm. 'Ask not what your country can do but what you can do for your country'

JFK commenting on the first cash for junk rebates.

No, I did not say that Doreen.

What I said was you have to blame deficit due to Bush on Bush, and what Obama spent on Obama.

But you can't blame Obama for the carryover deficit, the lasting legacy, from the Bush spending. And that's the vast majority of our deficit

[quote=Danzig;752739]
and then there is this?

classified documents reveals that U.S. military intelligence discovered chemical weapons labs, encountered insurgents who were specialists in the creation of toxins, and uncovered weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. However, Washington, DC officials and the news media have ignored this information.
One of the WikiLeaks document dumps reveals that as late as 2008, American troops continued to find WMD in the region.
There are numerous mentions of chemical and biological weapons in the WikiLeaks documents, however the U.S. media appear only interested in those portions of the leaked material that highlight actions that are viewed as embarrassing for the U.S. military such as the accusation that U.S. commanders were aware of abuse and "torture" of prisoners by Iraqi soldiers and police officers.
The U.S. Defense Department continues to demand that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange immediately return the stolen military documents in his possession, including recent documents that created another stir when published, according to Elaine Wilson of American Forces Press Service.
The department also wants the whistle-blowing web site to permanently delete all versions of these documents, which contain classified and sensitive information, from its web site, computers and records, Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell told reporters during a Pentagon briefing.
WikiLeaks documents don't reveal evidence of a massive weapons program by Saddam Hussein — the Bush administration’s leading rationale for invading Iraq -- or some enormous stockpile of WMD, but do reveal that chemical weapons did vanish from the Iraqi battlefield.
According to the latest WikiLeaks document "dump," Saddam’s toxic arsenal, significantly reduced after the Gulf War, remained intact. Jihadists, insurgents and foreign (possibly Iranian) agitators turned to these stockpiles during the Iraq conflict and may have brewed up their own deadly agents, according to the WikiLeaks web site.
During that time, former Iraqi General Georges Sada, Saddam's top commander, detailed the transfers of Iraq's WMD. "There [were] weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."
Gen. Sada's comments came just a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, claimed that Saddam Hussein "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."
in 2004, for example, American special forces members secretly purchased what they believed to be containers of liquid sulfur mustard which have been used since World War I. Following testing in a military lab, the chemical was then secured and transferred to a secret location.
Meanwhile, also in Iraq, U.S. recon soldiers inspected a suspected “chemical weapons” plant:
“One of the bunkers has been tampered with,” they write. “The integrity of the seal [around the complex] appears intact, but it seems someone is interested in trying to get into the bunkers.”
During the a battle in Fallujah, American forces claim they discovered a “house with a chemical lab … substances found are similar to ones (in lesser quantities located a previous chemical lab.” The following day, there was a call in another part of the Fallujah requesting "explosives experts to dispose of a chemical[weapons] cache."
In addition, an armored vehicle came upon "155mm rounds filled with an unknown liquid, and several of which are leaking a black tar-like substance.” Initial tests were inconclusive. But later, “the rounds tested positive for mustard.”


http://www.examiner.com/public-safet...to-us-invasion

I did not post this response. I think it is Doreens.

[quote=dellinger63;752747]
and?

if we are going to attack every country with weaponry, who has exhibited aggression to any neighbor, we need a bigger military. one far larger than we could ever afford, that's for sure.

quoting is messed up, that's all.

are you f'n kidding me? You want to go there?

She's right - that was my post. But something else you posted credited to me was not me - it was Danzig.

I noticed that, too - been a bit weird lately. I think it has to do with quoting a post that already contains a quote.

:zz: What the hell is that supposed to mean?

I saw that, too. I have great respect for Colin Powell.

The saddest thing is Rumsfeld is still putting out the wild crazy line of justification in his book. Deny, deny, deny.

Riot was actualy right about something? Miracles do happen ever once in a while.