Togacapper,
Good luck with that one! A Prime Timber should be just grand!
My two new babies, (see nybreds, foaling barn...Harper Farm, Harper Hill Farm, on the foaling barn page)...well, they're what it's all about.
My mare, Bourbon Streettune, is in foal to Best of Luck (High Cliff Farm...it's blue on the right side). I can't wait to see this one. Broad Brush baby!
DTS

I will pass this message to my friend you two would have alot to talk about...Best of luck in your venture.It would be nice to see both of your horses in the circle

Thanks Togacapper,
I'd like to meet up with your friend.
The farm is a little over an hour from Toga...figure an hour and a half.
Sumitas, a guy who posts on the ESPN board, got into breeding when I found a partnership for him on a nice mare named Lizoranet. She's now in foal to Desert Warrior. He's thrilled!
Lizoranet foaled a beauty that sold for about 30K last year. Sire was Wheelaway (McMahon's of Saratoga). Her baby by AP Jet didn't make it to term. So, now the expectation of the "next".
There are some pretty good opportunities for NY breeders.
If I ever have someone with "deep pockets" that would like to do a couple of "pin hooks" out of the Fasig Tipton Fall sale (toga)...plenty could be made.
In my humble opinion, lots of very well bred NY horse are being overlooked.
Bargains abound.
DTS

I' will make sure you two talk. He I'm sure will be excited to speak to someone in the same situation he is in, and also with the knowledge of breeding that you seem to have. His Mare is at a private farm in Ballston Spa, Ny.

I look forward to meeting you and your friend.
Mike (Oracle) has my e-mail address. Meet up with Mike for drinks like he invited.
Or, I'll be at Toga this summer. I swing by Steve's B-B-Q often.
Maybe we can meet up there.
DTS

Sure that would be fine. We are at the track all the time. Always a table in Caousel club house.Hoping to meet up with Mike this weekend. But I think he's going to New York I opted not this year.

TC,
That's great. I'll meet up with you and your friend at Steve's this summer.
It's Carolina Bar-B Que, the one to the left of the grand stand gate.
He'll be there. Nice guy. Pure heart.
And, if you read the ESPN board, he's kind of outraged about the lack of respect he's been given for providing us with this board and opportunities.
He's the real deal. Doesn't deserve the "trashing" from idiots.
Is this how some thank him for his efforts?
I'll meet up with you there during the meet.
DTS

Sounds great DTS. Just name the day. And as for Steve I listen to him all the time. And what a great board. Never posted on the ESPN board just always read...seemed hectic.

Hooves,I think most people who really like to gamble on horses do it for 3 reasons.I think horseracing is very intense around the far turn,and through the stretch.Intense enough that people can get a very good escape from whatever it is that they don't want to think about.If people are stressed about Work,illness,money ,failed relationships, or whatever it is.This sport works better than most sports do to disconnect a person's mind from their problems or concerns.I am not saying people feel bad,and say I am gunna bet horses to feel better.I am saying that subconciously the pleasure from playing horses comes from this disconnecting with reality.You may just think you do it for "the fun."I think for most people part of "the fun" is being totally disconnected from your normal worries,and concerns(mainly subconcious.)I think what many call "the juice" is this time when they are so into the fight in front of them that they are free from everything else in their lives(for that 15 seconds or whatever it may be.)This is what sporting events are..escapes from reality.

1)escape

2)solving a puzzle

3)trying to make money

that would be me....

I think great competitors love to win,but the pleasure of winning does not make up for the pain they feel from losing.Case in point...Chris McCarron is still in pain from the '87 Breeders Cup Classic,and the loss in the Derby on Cavonnier.

yeah, it should be great competitors love to win, but not quite as much as they hate to lose.

I don't mind losing a horse race wager as much as a sports wager. Its nice to be able to win or lose in 1:09. You lose, its quick and painless, not worrying about every tip of the ball or error. You win, its a nice rush and then a wait till the next race....I agree with Mike about chalk. I don't bet it. Usually I'll avoid the race, and or use the horse in a double or exacta. I'm a bombs away guy. Yesterday I was down a few hundred before the 5th at Churchill. Got the 10-1 home and ended up a nickel on the day. I don't mind firing at the value. You don't have to be right all the time at longshot odds. At chalk odds, you absolutely do.

Hooves: It's the puzzle first, and the cash next, and then the competition!

nice posts scuds and randall..escape is a good word...:cool: :cool:

2)solving a puzzle

Its all this for me. And its a puzzle that does not play fair. When you hit a horse that wins easily, and is a long shot, you found something few others did. That is very satisfying. But the patience required to allow those few moments to rise up are few and far between. So good luck to those that actually try to make money at this.

This is entertainment that you actually participate in. This not sitting back and watching a movie or reading a book. This sport involves predicting outcomes. And its an art and science mixture. The game is elusive and that makes it that much more interesting than other forms of entertainment. We have all seen the compulsives... but this is actually an intellectual game that does not play fairly. You can solve a problem in some other activity and you are done. This game does not end.

allright pgrdn and timmy g....great anyone else....:cool:

Scavs,Oracle tried to tell you to avoid betting these big win bets on Chalk.

Let me give you a couple reasons why it is a bad idea.Let's assume you play a $500 pick 6 with a take out of 25%...You give up $125 in take out once in a racecard,but for what possible reward? Who knows..Right?Could be 40k...Now compare that to the bet you described earlier($500 to win on a 7/5 shot.)You give up 18.5% right away=$92.50..if you bet an offshore it's 7% less...$57.50...Now what is the most you can possibly get back? $1200 total..O.K...Now what are you gunna do? You going home? Most guys are gunna keep betting.Depending on whether you win another race or not,you can keep pushing that money back and forth all night at a cost of 18.5%,or 11.5%. Your pssn away money that way(in takeout.)Probably another $100,or $200.Be smarter.

i d ont know if it was intentional chalk betting..if you lay down at 5-6 to 1 at 10 min to post...tick tick tick next thing you know its freakin 6/5...i hate that...

Figuring out the winner, gives me a rush, especially if the race unfolds as aexactly as you thought it would, I am wrong more often than I am right, but when you get it right, more than makes up for the wrongs.

timmy g are you bill or ted?....san d ca...is there really a circle k lol:cool:

Pat,
I couldn't agree more. It really IS an art and a science.
Predicting outcomes, now there's the puzzle.
To me, it comes from something deeper than anything that is quantifiable, much more "human".
It's called hope.
It's exactly the same psychological motivation as to why people show up in church every Sunday.
The thing that intrigues me is that so many quest the same answers, despite different venues.

"Do I want to go to heaven? Or can I avoid going to Hell?"

To me, it continues to be very interesting.
When I find the answer to the puzzle, I'll let you know, but I don't expect that I'll find it in this life.
I also hope.
On a very basic level, that's what most of this is about. (HOPE)

DTS

Great posts GTS,PG..

The joy of handicapping is the intellectual challenge picking winners for me. Though I follow racing consistently, I don't play more than 15 days a year, so the money is somewhat secondary, though I like winning as much as the next guy. I do expect to win, but being brutally realistic, the days I go are often the toughest cards of the year and breaking even is a challenge. I'm confident in my handicapping and feel like I am as good as any intermediate player on most days. However, I have a family and a nice career, so having the time to watch races and put the work that it takes into winning daily isn't feasible. Build a pile of money, retire at 50, and then see what I can do with racing down the road...on the other hand, I play sports betting to win money. Don't confuse that with being a handicapper. Much like racing, I know I can't put in 60 hours a week on that, but I am not ashamed to admit that I purchase selections from pros that I have been with for 10 years. Before some of you rush to condemn me, consider that I am a winning gambler while 99.9% of the guys who are too proud to pay for information are losing on their own picks..

DUDE: the Circle K is 150 yds from my apartment!!! Alas, I dont remember the movie very well!!!

To me its the joy of picking winners, especially the higher odds horses. Seeing something the very few others see. A sense of pride really.

the terror of tampa bay...................:cool: :cool:

To me it's the puzzle first & foremost.
Then there's the color;pageantry and seeing the perefct "running machines" take to the track.
Then watching the one you gleaned out of the pp's start that run at the 3/8's pole; sweep around horses on the turn and collar the leader 100 yds from the finish.
Then the finale.....cashing your winning ticket, with a broad smile, and a feeling of utter accomplishment.

You can't get all 4 of those things gambling on any other sporting event.Occasionally you get the 70yrd touchdoen pass in the final seconds of the football game that enables you to beat the spread. And occasionally you get that third ace on the river. And both of these events are a rush, it's true; but they don't happen very often (at least not as often as seeing your pick come thundering down the stretch, pasing all those in his way).
And in none of the other games of chance, do you have as much to decipher, and as fulfilled a feeling after deciphering.
It's the greatest game.

Yes, yes...
Now think about this for a moment if you will allow me...
You find a really nice brood mare,
You search for the right "match" for her...compensate for her "defects".
You pay a very big stud fee.
You wait.
Then wait a lot more.
Then comes the day when it's born and tries to find its way to its little wobbly legs. Life.
Then more waiting, watching it play with the other foals in the pasture.
Then the time to train.
Start it slow, break it to lead, then the bit, next a light saddle.
Then you roll over its back, and later, after it trusts you enough, it lets you climb on to its back.
Then some easy rides with a retired pony horse (just so it feels a bit less threatened).

Next, the real training....the folks that you trust to make something more of what you've already invested so much time and effort into.
You watch the clock.
you hope they don't wreck him/her.
You hope it stays sound.
And then, one day...it shows up in the paddock wearing your silks.
The post parade, the gate, the break...

All I'm trying to say is that there is so, so much more than the final 3/8, though it brings the same lump in my throat when I see that special moment.
So much goes in before anything worthwhile comes out....

As I've heard said, "All in the blink of a moment...is all eternity".

That's what it is to me. Life.

DTS

Nice post-------------------------you write as an owner and I write as a handicapper. I've been both and both have their ups and downs, but I wouldn't trade any of either experience, because nothing else is like it.

agreed....but you know what takes it to the next level for me is being there, without any forms, pp's, or odds boards and being able to spot that special something by how a horse looks. how they react in the paddock, when they are saddled, in the post parade and if you are right in your hunch the thrill is just as great whether you have no money or a bunch of money riding on it. It's about the love of the game and the animal as much as it is cashing a ticket....for me anyway.....