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-   -   Churchill 5th.. 12yo mare off 9 year layoff? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32839)

MISTERGEE 11-19-2009 01:50 PM

the local characters are disapearing from the penn nationals and the charlestowns. for example yesterday at penn among the winning trainers were, anthony pecoraro, jaime ness, david geist, tim ritchey, larry rivelli. mostly guys who didnt even have horses at penn before for example. now that the purses are jacked at these tracks all the $ is being scooped up by "out of town" trainers and owners. so those local characters are probably telling themselves be careful what you wish for. because the purses are up but the $ is going elsewhere.

slotdirt 11-19-2009 02:04 PM

Lake also seems to be spending a lot more time in Pennsylvania these days.

ETA Granted, that's where he got his start, but still, he seems to be every where in the mid-Atlantic.

TouchOfGrey 11-19-2009 02:37 PM

She really is an idiot

Quote:

"She had so much spunk and, every time I rode her, she got higher and higher," said the 27-year-old Costello, who has not previously started a horse in a race. "She has been really happy, and she loves to run. Honestly, I did it for her."
Quote:

Costello said she is aware she could face some backlash for trying to run a horse off a nine-year layoff, but she maintains that Grand Forks will eventually return to the track.

"You know, (the backlash) might happen the first time I run her but, when she wins that race and comes back fine, I think people will accept it," she said.
:zz: :zz: :zz:

DaTruth 11-19-2009 03:02 PM

If her goal was to make racing news, then she accomplished that. The folks in Colorado who pretended their toddler floated off in a homemade balloon have set the bar low for those seeking to make a news splash.

kgar311 11-19-2009 03:03 PM

Ill be expecting some backlash here but am I the only one that would of liked to see that horse run yesterday? I campaigned a 12yr old 10 years ago and he won 10 of 24 races for me albeit not off a 9yr layoff. Tons of heart and loved to run at his old age. Horses will let you know if they dont want to run anymore.
This horse had been training at a center and had 3 published works. Whats the problem?

Linny 11-19-2009 03:09 PM

There are alot of old timers still going at 10+ but not mares that have been pasture puffs after several years of difficult pregnancies. The person who gave her the horse did so under the express order that she was to be a riding horse. This is why I think that there should be a "retired" status, meaning "this horse cannot race again."

cabvmd 11-19-2009 03:34 PM

As a former racing offical I commend the stewards, but considering the history of the horse, the entry should not have been taken UNTIL a state vet had been informed and had an opporunity to see the horse train. There needs to be communication between the race office, state vets, stewards to avoid these types of incidences.

In many years past, we had quite a few RESPONSIBLE trainers that would approch us with a horse that had been on a long lay off and ask if we would like to observe one of the horse's works before they entered.

When Costello cried "I can not afford to bring her all the way here and not run her" is so typical of the "gyp' trainer mentality. When this young lady began to cry in public and her companion yell and berate a racing offical it just shows the "no clue" factor that these people have concerning the serious nature of preparing a horse properly, ensuring the welfare of their horse as well as the other entrants.

Cannon Shell 11-19-2009 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311
Ill be expecting some backlash here but am I the only one that would of liked to see that horse run yesterday? I campaigned a 12yr old 10 years ago and he won 10 of 24 races for me albeit not off a 9yr layoff. Tons of heart and loved to run at his old age. Horses will let you know if they dont want to run anymore.
This horse had been training at a center and had 3 published works. Whats the problem?

Did you have a real trainer?

MISTERGEE 11-19-2009 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
There are alot of old timers still going at 10+ but not mares that have been pasture puffs after several years of difficult pregnancies. The person who gave her the horse did so under the express order that she was to be a riding horse. This is why I think that there should be a "retired" status, meaning "this horse cannot race again."

couldnt they have withheld certain paperwork in giving her the horse where as she would not have been able to enter her to race?

Danzig 11-19-2009 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE
couldnt they have withheld certain paperwork in giving her the horse where as she would not have been able to enter her to race?


but surely someone as smart as this girl seems to be could manage to find a way? ;)


seriously tho....she asked them for the necessary papers, and lied to get them-they certainly seem to have grounds to prove she was given the horse with certain criteria such as no racing. why else would she have said it was for an event? she certainly wasn't bragging to them that their former mare was suddenly 'race ready'.

letswastemoney 11-19-2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
but surely someone as smart as this girl seems to be could manage to find a way? ;)


seriously tho....she asked them for the necessary papers, and lied to get them-they certainly seem to have grounds to prove she was given the horse with certain criteria such as no racing. why else would she have said it was for an event? she certainly wasn't bragging to them that their former mare was suddenly 'race ready'.

I feel that unless it's in writing that the horse can't race....it was her horse and she didn't break any rules, even if she did lie to get the papers.

Not that I agree with racing her cause I don't.

Danzig 11-19-2009 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney
I feel that unless it's in writing that the horse can't race....it was her horse and she didn't break any rules, even if she did lie to get the papers.

Not that I agree with racing her cause I don't.

from drf's article:

Rick Trontz, a central Kentucky breeder who had claimed the horse for $32,000 from the Del Mar race but had no luck with her as a producer, said Tuesday he gave the mare to Costello, a former employee, but only with the stipulation that Grand Forks be used strictly as a pleasure horse.


might explain why she claimed she needed the papers for a pleasure event. why else would he have kept them, unless to keep the horse from breeding/racing? and keep in mind that a verbal agreement is legally binding.

pba1817 11-19-2009 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney
I feel that unless it's in writing that the horse can't race....it was her horse and she didn't break any rules, even if she did lie to get the papers.

Not that I agree with racing her cause I don't.

If there was no original bill of sale, then legally she doesn't own the horse. This is likely the reason the owner never forwarded the papers. To protect the horse and himself in the event THIS happened. So, she did break the rules, and is a morally repugnant person... and should die of gonorrhea.

chucklestheclown 11-20-2009 12:29 AM

What do papers have to do with racing? Is it like a car title? Is everyone required to show it every time an entry fee is taken? I want to know.

philcski 11-20-2009 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown
What do papers have to do with racing? Is it like a car title? Is everyone required to show it every time an entry fee is taken? I want to know.

Yes... it's a legal document, issued by the Jockey Club. States have additional paperwork that deal in livestock sale, kind of like a car title.
https://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/...TOKEN=53392871

Thoroughbred Fan 11-20-2009 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
That was the maitre'd at Saratoga, not the Stewards

We used to call that guy "The Claw", becaue his money grubbing claw was always out if you wanted a table where you could actually watch racing. I've never seen a jacket pocket bulge like his. He was making more money than the track itself. Great gig until he got busted.

Merlinsky 11-20-2009 01:34 AM

"When Costello was laid off, according to Trontz, she asked to take the horse with her, and he agreed." http://www.drf.com/news/article/109010.html

Seriously? It never occurred to him that someone recently laid off might not be a good person to sell a horse to? What did he think she was gonna do to get feed? Barter with belly button lint? I appreciate not every trainer's gonna be very well off, especially in the beginning, but I have more money than she does right now I'm gonna guess and I have the sense to know I can't afford a pleasure horse at the moment, nevermind a racehorse. Maybe she did us all a favor and got her reputation for being clueless out there before she did some actual damage to that mare or anybody else's horse.

Danzig 11-21-2009 07:02 PM

courtesy of drf:


Grand Forks to work for vet

Grand Forks, the 12-year-old mare who was a late scratch Wednesday at Churchill, was scheduled to breeze while being watched by a state veterinarian Saturday morning at the Thoroughbred Training Center in Lexington, according to chief steward John Veitch.

Grand Forks has not raced since August 2000. Veitch informed owner-trainer Kathleen Costello about 12 minutes before the fifth race Wednesday that even though she had complied with all posted requirements to make the horse eligible to run, he was invoking his discretionary powers to request that Grand Forks have at least one workout before a state vet prior to being approved to race.

johnny pinwheel 11-21-2009 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doll0608
I really think this chick needs a reality check.

let me get this right, she was going to bet on the horse and fund a stable. what was her next purchase , big brown? is this story for real? c'mon, is this malcolm in the middle or the simpsons? i think homer tried this with his grey hound, didn't he? santas little helper.......forget the reality check, how about a bed check at four winds and no one said anything until the paddock..c'mon, no way.

doll0608 11-21-2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel
let me get this right, she was going to bet on the horse and fund a stable. what was her next purchase , big brown? is this story for real? c'mon, is this malcolm in the middle or the simpsons? i think homer tried this with his grey hound, didn't he? santas little helper.......forget the reality check, how about a bed check at four winds and no one said anything until the paddock..c'mon, no way.

Many people were talking about it before the paddock. The racing officals sent a person over to the "trainer" to ask her how long this horse had been in training.....her reply 30 days!! (and fromt he person that was sent to do this said the horse was not in any type of racing shape) Obviously someone dropped the ball on this because all the investigation should have taken place before the day of the race. I really do have to commend the action that many people in the racing industry took to bring the problem to light. I know for a fact that there were calls made to the racing officals from trainers, and vets. Of course by that time it sent the officals scrambling to find answers.

Danzig 11-21-2009 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doll0608
Many people were talking about it before the paddock. The racing officals sent a person over to the "trainer" to ask her how long this horse had been in training.....her reply 30 days!! (and fromt he person that was sent to do this said the horse was not in any type of racing shape) Obviously someone dropped the ball on this because all the investigation should have taken place before the day of the race. I really do have to commend the action that many people in the racing industry took to bring the problem to light. I know for a fact that there were calls made to the racing officals from trainers, and vets. Of course by that time it sent the officals scrambling to find answers.


horse was away from racing nine years, had three works, and they allowed the entry. talk about dropping the ball. and this gal passed the trainers test?? how about a basic i.q. test?

Rupert Pupkin 11-22-2009 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown
What do papers have to do with racing? Is it like a car title? Is everyone required to show it every time an entry fee is taken? I want to know.

The papers are kept at the racing office. A horse can't run unless the papers are in the racing office. If the racing office does not have possesion of the papers, they won't let your horse run.

Cannon Shell 11-22-2009 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
The papers are kept at the racing office. A horse can't run unless the papers are in the racing office. If the racing office does not have possesion of the papers, they won't let your horse run.

Actually Churchill no longer requires the foal papers be on file in the race office anymore. New policy started this meet.

Cannon Shell 11-22-2009 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
horse was away from racing nine years, had three works, and they allowed the entry. talk about dropping the ball. and this gal passed the trainers test?? how about a basic i.q. test?

The racing office should have questioned the entry before the race as drawn. But this was such an unusual scenario that i can see how it was not questioned especially since they had the three works posted. I dont think that TC has official clockers, turn your own works in.

Mike 11-22-2009 12:22 PM

Grand Forks :50.80 B (36 of 49)

Just a slow breeze, well within herself:D

Danzig 11-22-2009 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike
Grand Forks :50.80 B (36 of 49)

Just a slow breeze, well within himself:D


i think churchill should just rule that trainer off the grounds. this is a farce.

Mike 11-22-2009 12:43 PM

Who doesn't remember cashing in on good ole' Grand Forks back in the day at Turf Paradise:$:

Went off at 6-5 in the Sun Devil 25k stakes; then 4-5 in the Arizona Oaks. Wired both fields dominantly. Horses like this deserve one last shot as a bottom level claimer at historic Churchill Downs:rolleyes:

kgar311 11-22-2009 12:45 PM

Here's the words of Chief State Vet Bryce Peckham:

Peckham also inspected Grand Forks before and after the workout.

"What I saw when I examined this horse just now and watched her jog down the lane, I wouldn't scratch her," he said. "She looked fine. She looked good out on the track."

Im pulling for the horse to get back to the track

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs...side/blog.html

Mike 11-22-2009 01:23 PM

The girl has an equine management degree. She's not an idiot on horses. This horse has not wanted for anything, had not taken a backseat for anything… This horse has been taken care of like a Derby horse from the day she got the horse


Too bad the Churchill meet ends too soon for ole' Grand Forks


I'd imagine the connections will head to the Gulfstream meet, with one eye on Dubai in March

johnny pinwheel 11-22-2009 01:25 PM

yes, but the chief steward (veitch) said it was a mistake the horse was allowed to enter. now hes just praying for the meet to end. this lady and horse are a hot potatoe. the track that lets her start that horse will take alot of heat if something goes bad. now the spotlight is on...at first i did not believe it..now the "story" has legs. you have to wonder what this woman is thinking and even question her stability. it kind sounds like shes sneaking around through this whole deal. the story of her getting this horse is shady, it definetly was not handed to her for racing purposes.

Mike 11-22-2009 01:34 PM

I think that entry in the Breeder's Cup a half-dozen years ago (can't remember the winless(?) horse's name) was far worse than this for the "respectability" of the business

Horses are breakind down on tracks all the time, and eauthanized.

I imagine the old mare will simply be outrun, just as I would if I raced a 20 year old track star. But I wouldn't die as a result

As long as the horse isn't souped up in some mannner(though even that seems acceptable in horse racing), is there a reason to think the horse is going to die?

Mike 11-22-2009 01:36 PM

Grand Forks had a rough trip in her only grass attempt, and she seems potentially better on that surface.

She might even take well to Dubai's new synthetic surface:D

johnny pinwheel 11-22-2009 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike
I think that entry in the Breeder's Cup a half-dozen years ago (can't remember the winless(?) horse's name) was far worse than this for the "respectability" of the business

Horses are breakind down on tracks all the time, and eauthanized.

I imagine the old mare will simply be outrun, just as I would if I raced a 20 year old track star. But I wouldn't die as a result

As long as the horse isn't souped up in some mannner(though even that seems acceptable in horse racing), is there a reason to think the horse is going to die?

i don't know my friend tried that, hes 52, raced someone across a parking lot fell and dislocated his shoulder. it was an ugly way to end the summer. if this horse got hurt it would be a martyr for peta. people would sink their teeth in and ask why the horse raced. the horse WAS a good racehorse is it really worth it? we have these other horses that run 9 races and call it a career. the horse can do something else besides racing, thats what it was given to her for.

letswastemoney 11-22-2009 03:22 PM

I'm a bit impressed that a pasture puff like her can even breeze in a half mile in 50 still.

But she will still finish last by 40 lengths most likely.

kgar311 11-22-2009 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney
I'm a bit impressed that a pasture puff like her can even breeze in a half mile in 50 still.

But she will still finish last by 40 lengths most likely.

'

She'll get out of the gate last and she'll trail throughout theres no doubt about it. Let the horse run around the track, lose by a ton then they'll have a reason to not allow the horse to race again. Otherwise shes done everything she needed to do legally to race the horse, morally thats another question.
I think some people on here are under the delusion that shes gonna be mixing it up between horses in a 21 and change quarter. If she beats a horse or two then good for her.

TouchOfGrey 11-22-2009 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike
I think that entry in the Breeder's Cup a half-dozen years ago (can't remember the winless(?) horse's name) was far worse than this for the "respectability" of the business

Rick's Natural Star

Mike 11-22-2009 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey


Thank you. It was that race that put the game on par with current Professional Boxing

Riot 11-22-2009 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Actually Churchill no longer requires the foal papers be on file in the race office anymore. New policy started this meet.

What do they use to compare lip tattoo to markings, how do they verify the right horse is in the paddock?

Sightseek 11-22-2009 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

You really have to wonder about people who not only send horses like this out, but those that are willing to get on them.

Round Pen 11-22-2009 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike
Grand Forks :50.80 B (36 of 49)

Just a slow breeze, well within herself:D

WhaT i Am being told from a friend that was there that morning GF dropped the Rider before the Breeze.


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