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-   -   Rosario investigation (12/13: CHRB clears..) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31840)

Cannon Shell 09-20-2009 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docicu3
The horse was spent on the front end and wasn't placing regardless of Rosario's ride at that point. If it wasn't for the report of the intention to buy, an obvious slight of the trainers preparation for the horse, which is reported by the trainer this is a non story. Let the process play out so all have their say before passing judgement. The "attempt to buy" may not be all that is printed but until Vic and Rosario have a chance to respond at the appropriate time the information is incomplete. The whole thing is very strange..
It isnt really a slight. There are inquiries all the time about buying horses. The fact is that it is the end of the meet and Glenney is shipping out of CA. Perhaps someone thought he may be interested in selling, especially since he didnt pay much for the horse and he does sell horses at public auction. What is strange is Glenney thinking that he should have won. I could see if he was complaining about third place but winning?

Cannon Shell 09-20-2009 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docicu3
The horse was spent on the front end and wasn't placing regardless of Rosario's ride at that point. If it wasn't for the report of the intention to buy, an obvious slight of the trainers preparation for the horse, which is reported by the trainer this is a non story. Let the process play out so all have their say before passing judgement. The "attempt to buy" may not be all that is printed but until Vic and Rosario have a chance to respond at the appropriate time the information is incomplete. The whole thing is very strange..

Jockey agents are often asked to inquire about the availability of horses they ride because they already have a relationship with the trainer of the horse. They may or may not have anything to do with the actual purchase of the horse.

Chuck ...Am I wrong in assuming that an agent coming to you the next day about purchasing a horse that ran below expectations is kinda insulting your approach to the horse?
Not really. But I dont get mad when people claim my horses either. It's business. As a matter of fact if you sold everytime someone made an inquiry you would probably be ahead in the long run.

CSC 09-20-2009 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyJ
Horses do get intimidated when stuck on the rail or when inside of other horses. Some horses would rather race outside of other horses rather to be hemmed in. For example, and it's not quite the same, but if you have a horse who only has a left eye, chances are you are going to want to keep him/her outside of horses so the horse is able to respond to being challenged...
Yes, however as a handicapper if it were announced in the program or by the PA system that a horse was instructed to ride without cover and on the outside of horses in a turf race no less, I would bet that horse would be 8-1 rather than 4-1. I am a big proponent of having cover in turf races and I would want no part of any horse that is not comfortable being on the inside.

Cannon Shell 09-20-2009 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Yes, however as a handicapper if it were announced in the program or by the PA system that a horse was instructed to ride without cover and on the outside of horses in a turf race no less, I would bet that horse would be 8-1 rather than 4-1. I am a big proponent of having cover in turf races and I would want no part of any horse that is not comfortable being on the inside.
Some horses do better without cover (Richwood Silver is an example) but if horses pass you on your outside how exactly do you keep the horse outside horses?

CSC 09-20-2009 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
He did seem to crack him left handed about 100 yards out. He was on the rail going into the turn. If you watch him when he fades out of the big picture going into the turn Rosario has him on a loose rein, letting him run. The thought that he somehow cost him the win is stupid.
I saw nothing wrong with the ride Chuck, I think the whip is overrated if he shook the reins maybe Glenney wouldn't had filed the complaint, obviously this all about perception. I totally disagree Rosario cost him the race neverless a placing. If anything the horse should be more at fault, any horse that needs to be placed outside on a turf course that usually favors inside speed has very little chance to win, maybe he should start trying to train the horse to run behind cover and on the inside of horses for it's next start if he hasn't. I know Pletcher does these type of things with 2 yr olds. It sounds easy enough, Probably isn't, but that is what I would do. if the horse is still shy, I'd get rid of him.

dellinger63 09-20-2009 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Some horses do better without cover (Richwood Silver is an example) but if horses pass you on your outside how exactly do you keep the horse outside horses?
and if he went w/the 10 at that point he finishes w/o a check. He did seem somewhat hesitant until he cleared the split in the rail but no way he was finishing any better than 3rd. Maybe Vic was just trying to butter Glenney up saying he wanted to buy the horse??? lol

Cannon Shell 09-20-2009 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
I saw nothing wrong with the ride Chuck, I think the whip is overrated if he shook the reins maybe Glenney wouldn't had filed the complaint, obviously this all about perception. I totally disagree Rosario cost him the race neverless a placing. If anything the horse should be more at fault, any horse that needs to be placed outside on a turf course that usually favors inside speed has very little chance to win, maybe he should start trying to train the horse to run behind cover and on the inside of horses for it's next start if he hasn't. I know Pletcher does these type of things with 2 yr olds. It sounds easy enough, Probably isn't, but that is what I would do. if the horse is still shy, I'd get rid of him.
It wasnt the greatest ride and if I was Glenney I may be a little pissed that he didnt ride harder for third. But it hardly looks like he was on a horse that was tons the best and got stiffed.

2Hot4TV 09-20-2009 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmorioles
Thanks for that, though the horse winning has nothing to do with the investigation. Since they pay wagers down to 5th, jockeys are expected, at the least, to try to secure the best placing possible.
You would roll over in your grave to watch Bill Shoemaker " Save his horse for next time" when he wasn't going to win and what about all the horses that go to the gate that just in it for a tightener for the next race that they are "POINTING TO". So really whats the problem? It is what it is.......if you cant deal with if then try betting boxing.

dellinger63 09-20-2009 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
You would roll over in your grave to watch Bill Shoemaker " Save his horse for next time" when he wasn't going to win and what about all the horses that go to the gate that just in it for a tightener for the next race that they are "POINTING TO". So really whats the problem? It is what it is.......if you cant deal with if then try betting boxing.
Glenney obviously didn't feel this was a tightener and apparantly this was the race he at least thought he was pointing to. Jockeys are like ex-wives they don't listen.

2Hot4TV 09-20-2009 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63
Glenney obviously didn't feel this was a tightener and apparantly this was the race he at least thought he was pointing to. Jockeys are like ex-wives they don't listen.
"Good jockeys dont need instructions and bad one's dont listen" Laz Barrara

Honu 09-20-2009 03:43 PM
I see it this way , trainer thought horse would win , horse didnt win and he was very unhappy that his jock didnt stay 7 wide the whole way. Trainer was even more aggrivated by the agent coming by to see if the horse was for sale making the trainer think not only didnt the jock keep the horse in the 7 path his agent now was trying to buy the horse . Trainer thought about it for a bit and was really mad not only did the jockey stiff the horse now he wanted to buy it .....

alysheba4 09-21-2009 01:19 PM
"trainer" and "owner" need to shut their cake holes.......they look like idiots.

the_fat_man 09-21-2009 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honu
trainer thought horse would win , horse didnt win and he was very unhappy that his jock didnt stay 7 wide the whole way. .
Here's a good way to resolve this mess: we get Vic, Joel and Glenney over to the local velodrome and put them on track bikes. We make sure they're all pushing big gears, have them race a few laps, and make sure that Glenney is in the 7 path for the race. After the ****er drops of a heart attack, he'll get a sense of what wide trips do to horses and maybe do a better job of getting his to run behind other horses (which, ironically, the one in question had no trouble doing in that race). Apparently, he's just another lazy/incompetent trainer who doesn't want to take the time to do things right or could give a **** about what the affect is on his horses.

SCUDSBROTHER 09-21-2009 02:38 PM
The kid was winning everything that weekend. I remember that day, and the last thing that guy needed was a set of instructions on how to get to the Winners Circle. He was "in the zone," and this ride isn't "in the zone." Seems like nothing was working very well for this trainer all meet. He finally gets a White-Hot jock on his horse. The kid could do no wrong that day, and you still give him instructions? This(giving instructions to someone on a roll) is what people do when they're pressing. With no instructions given, he would of found a way to relax this horse, and he would of flown home.

King Glorious 09-21-2009 03:25 PM
This reminds me of an incident that some of you may know about from some years back in Southern Cal. A jockey that had been working a horse for awhile talked to the trainer and told him that he thought he could enter him into a lower level claiming race than the trainer wanted to and he'd be safe. The horse ended up getting claimed. By another jockey. Who just happened to be the roommate of the jockey that had been working the horse.

10 pnt move up 09-21-2009 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
This reminds me of an incident that some of you may know about from some years back in Southern Cal. A jockey that had been working a horse for awhile talked to the trainer and told him that he thought he could enter him into a lower level claiming race than the trainer wanted to and he'd be safe. The horse ended up getting claimed. By another jockey. Who just happened to be the roommate of the jockey that had been working the horse.
1. this happens a lot, horse is worked by exercise rider (or jockey), they tell people, horse shows up in mdn claimer, then gets claimed or an offer to buy the horse happens.

2. Difference is a horse is not in a race where the best effort to win was put forth and then the agent of said horses offers to buy it.

1 happens all the time, thats part of racing...2 seems a little shady.

King Glorious 09-21-2009 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
1. this happens a lot, horse is worked by exercise rider (or jockey), they tell people, horse shows up in mdn claimer, then gets claimed or an offer to buy the horse happens.

2. Difference is a horse is not in a race where the best effort to win was put forth and then the agent of said horses offers to buy it.

1 happens all the time, thats part of racing...2 seems a little shady.
I doubt it happens a lot. You mean to tell me that you'd see nothing wrong with O'Neill having a horse that he thinks should probably be running at $40k but having Solis exercise the horse and then convince him that he could probably get away with putting him in for $25k.......and then Solis' roommate claiming him for $25k?

10 pnt move up 09-21-2009 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
I doubt it happens a lot. You mean to tell me that you'd see nothing wrong with O'Neill having a horse that he thinks should probably be running at $40k but having Solis exercise the horse and then convince him that he could probably get away with putting him in for $25k.......and then Solis' roommate claiming him for $25k?
Solis has no bearing in the decision, and believe if asked Solis would be totally honest with any trainer.

I know of one case a rider was working a very talented horse, told the trainer this horse can really run, trainer wanted to win first out entered him for 32k at SA. The horse was claimed, a new york bred at that, he won lots of money in new york.

Its the trainers fault for making decisions on a horses place.

I also know of a high end private purchase made after a rider was working a horse.

You make it sound like there is a bunch of secrets out there, people can watch horses work and know if they are any good.

The only reason this is a story is because the way it unfolded.

10 pnt move up 09-21-2009 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
I doubt it happens a lot.
you are naive, not trying to be mean, but I have only limited experience at the track and know this has happened, no guessing here.

King Glorious 09-21-2009 04:52 PM
You are missing the point. I know that there is plenty of talk on the backstretch. I was only using Solis and O'Neill's names just to fill in the blanks. What happened in that situation was that is looked like the rider knew the horse was better than a $25k horse but sold the trainer on believing he could get away with it so his friend could buy.

10 pnt move up 09-21-2009 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
You are missing the point. I know that there is plenty of talk on the backstretch. I was only using Solis and O'Neill's names just to fill in the blanks. What happened in that situation was that is looked like the rider knew the horse was better than a $25k horse but sold the trainer on believing he could get away with it so his friend could buy.
Well, if a rider did that, and it easily got around as you suggest, the rider is an f'ng idiot because his reputation on the backside would be toast.

Cannon Shell 09-21-2009 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
This reminds me of an incident that some of you may know about from some years back in Southern Cal. A jockey that had been working a horse for awhile talked to the trainer and told him that he thought he could enter him into a lower level claiming race than the trainer wanted to and he'd be safe. The horse ended up getting claimed. By another jockey. Who just happened to be the roommate of the jockey that had been working the horse.
Jockeys cant claim horses.

Cannon Shell 09-21-2009 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
This reminds me of an incident that some of you may know about from some years back in Southern Cal. A jockey that had been working a horse for awhile talked to the trainer and told him that he thought he could enter him into a lower level claiming race than the trainer wanted to and he'd be safe. The horse ended up getting claimed. By another jockey. Who just happened to be the roommate of the jockey that had been working the horse.
Not to mention that any trainer that is stupid enough to listen to a jockeys advice on what price to run for deserves to lose the horse.

Cannon Shell 09-21-2009 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
Well, if a rider did that, and it easily got around as you suggest, the rider is an f'ng idiot because his reputation on the backside would be toast.
or he may wind up with some broken limbs

Indian Charlie 09-21-2009 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Not to mention that any trainer that is stupid enough to listen to a jockeys advice on what price to run for deserves to lose the horse.
No kidding man.

Are they as dumb in person as they seem to be whenever you hear them speak on TV, or for that matter, when you see them ride on TV?

v j stauffer 09-21-2009 11:56 PM
Want you guys to know I'm watching, listening and learning. Appreciate all the input both negative and positive. Would love to comment but out of respect to Joel, Mr. Glenny and all involved I will not. The hearing is Oct. 2nd. We're looking forward to presenting our testimony and moving forward. Joel is enjoying his much deserved vacation. Tina and I are celebrating our marriage a week ago Saturday in Marin at Brent Sumja's house. What a blessed man I am that such a wonderful caring woman has chosen to be with me. I'll be back to work either Wednesday or Thursday morning. Probably Friday for Joel. We're both very focused and dedicated to the goal of Joel achieving his third consecutive So. Cal. riding title.

All the best.

Vic Stauffer

docicu3 09-22-2009 05:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Want you guys to know I'm watching, listening and learning. Appreciate all the input both negative and positive. Would love to comment but out of respect to Joel, Mr. Glenny and all involved I will not. The hearing is Oct. 2nd. We're looking forward to presenting our testimony and moving forward. Joel is enjoying his much deserved vacation. Tina and I are celebrating our marriage a week ago Saturday in Marin at Brent Sumja's house. What a blessed man I am that such a wonderful caring woman has chosen to be with me. I'll be back to work either Wednesday or Thursday morning. Probably Friday for Joel. We're both very focused and dedicated to the goal of Joel achieving his third consecutive So. Cal. riding title.

All the best.

Vic Stauffer
Congrats on your paper anniversary......you seem to have found the peace and comfort we all seek. It's a great thing to wake up each day knowing your married to your best friend......

About the subject of the thread....

When the Oct date passes ,if possible, could you set the record straight about the reports concerning Jay Privman's role in this issue other than the initial piece he wrote for DRF. As you probably have read elsewhere, there is a myriad of complex speculation in cyberspace on other boards that some of this issue has been fueled by a personal attack of some sort and that Joel is being unjustly accused as a means to attack you. If any of that is true, it really is very unfair....

Danzig 09-22-2009 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Want you guys to know I'm watching, listening and learning. Appreciate all the input both negative and positive. Would love to comment but out of respect to Joel, Mr. Glenny and all involved I will not. The hearing is Oct. 2nd. We're looking forward to presenting our testimony and moving forward. Joel is enjoying his much deserved vacation. Tina and I are celebrating our marriage a week ago Saturday in Marin at Brent Sumja's house. What a blessed man I am that such a wonderful caring woman has chosen to be with me. I'll be back to work either Wednesday or Thursday morning. Probably Friday for Joel. We're both very focused and dedicated to the goal of Joel achieving his third consecutive So. Cal. riding title.

All the best.

Vic Stauffer

congrats on your marriage and good luck with the hearing.

Coach Pants 09-22-2009 08:29 AM
Hey Vic congrats on the wedding. On this issue, well...watch out for your cornhole, bud.

VOL JACK 09-22-2009 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
congrats on your marriage and good luck with the hearing.
Congrats on your hearing and good luck with your marriage.

randallscott35 09-22-2009 08:48 AM
:tro:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOL JACK
Congrats on your hearing and good luck with your marriage.

10 pnt move up 11-24-2009 10:41 PM
So there were lost of rumblings of a feud between Vic and Privman but I guess this Blog post comments from the two themselves tell the (two) stories. Big names chime in on the situation. I know Rosario had the meeting with the CHRB this week but heard nada on an outcome.

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/ec...#comment-18225

philcski 11-24-2009 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
So there were lost of rumblings of a feud between Vic and Privman but I guess this Blog post comments from the two themselves tell the (two) stories. Big names chime in on the situation. I know Rosario had the meeting with the CHRB this week but heard nada on an outcome.

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/ec...#comment-18225
Byk got a much deserved shout out in that blog...

which brings up another point: yet another reason why the Eclipse awards are irrelevant: voted on by print media in a digital generation.

Scav 11-24-2009 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
So there were lost of rumblings of a feud between Vic and Privman but I guess this Blog post comments from the two themselves tell the (two) stories. Big names chime in on the situation. I know Rosario had the meeting with the CHRB this week but heard nada on an outcome.

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/ec...#comment-18225
Internet brawls, you gotta love them, on blog comments no LESS!!!

Coach Pants 11-24-2009 11:58 PM
I'm making Team Privman and Team Stauffer shirts and putting them on ebay with a reserve of $.50. Might sell 1. Maybe.

chucklestheclown 11-25-2009 12:06 AM
Reminds me of sideshowbob:D

v j stauffer 11-25-2009 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
It would be interesting to see Vic -- or anyone -- post a link to his award winning piece.
There is no link. It was a radio feature. If you'd like a copy PM your address and I'll have Hollywood Park publicity send you one.

docicu3 11-25-2009 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
It would be interesting to see Vic -- or anyone -- post a link to his award winning piece.

What I want to know is how does Byk not have an Eclipse for his own journalistic efforts relevant to the sport. I must be missing something here but some of his efforts about the state of racing in Ky, the show devoted to Bobby Frankel's passing or his efforts to publicize the issue of neglected horses starving in mass last year seem to be more deserving of recognition than anything I have read or seen these past few years...but I digress. Happy Thanksgiving all...

stonegossard 11-25-2009 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
So there were lost of rumblings of a feud between Vic and Privman but I guess this Blog post comments from the two themselves tell the (two) stories. Big names chime in on the situation. I know Rosario had the meeting with the CHRB this week but heard nada on an outcome.

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/ec...#comment-18225
Rounds 1-14 go to Privman. Ouch.


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