So she has gone from the greatest filly ever to now she can easily lose to a 2nd rater but we are the idiots? Oh boy racing writers are cautioning us that she can lose!!!

This is the greatest logic ever. So now if she wins, you will crow about how smart you are because you knew she was truly great and Jackson is a great ambassador for the sport. However if she loses you will say that you knew about this possibility beforehand because some writers said so.

Unlike most, some of us have seen some great horses compete before. Not Smarty Jones or Curlin or Afleet Alex or whatever passes for great nowdays. And guess what? With one notable exception they all lost and no one thought less of them. Perhaps you should q2uit your insults and learn a little before running your mouth and using racing writers as your reference points.

You, my friend, may have a short shelf life around here.

Why would you possibly NOT want to see her run and perhaps put all this zenyatta crap to rest once and for all? Just asking?

This isn't consistent with the legacy argument that Jackson has put fwd. Plus as I have been reminded here multiple times she did win at Keeneland on polytrack, pending what she does after the Woodward, why wouldn't you want to see her race against the best at SA? How can any fan of racing not want this to happen?

Because people love dirt more than horse racing

Bob I hope you get one and I hope Chuck does as well. Let's dream.. You have your 3 year old filly machine you just won the logical Preakness, Haskell, Woodward. But the other champion is a turf mare are you going to the Turf Classic? Would you race a dirt horse on turf? Isn't Pro Ride NOT dirt the same way that Turf isnt dirt?
It is not about loving dirt. I have zero issue with POLY actually I think it is fine for some tracks. I just demand that it be considered a separate surface. Why the BC peopel were foolish enough not to comprehend this is frustrating and the sole cause for confusion. I actually would rather watch RA on try turf. I wonder if she could be as special.

If Jackson wanted to get her ready for BC he would need to ship her to CA. after the Wodward then look for a spot to see if she handled the stuff. Tom and Chuck contention is she already handled the stuff...Against what type. I am sure she could win a 10 claiming on the turf does that mean she handles turf? You have a once in a generation horse shouldn't she go in the Beldame against Zenyatta. Shouldn't we all be pissed that the Moss's are denying Zenyatta an opportunity to prove her greatness. Zenyatta has earned the right to face RA. The Beldame would be an awesome spot for her and racing. Instead you want Jess to skip the Beldame, and start prepping for a surface switch or just sending her there work her once or twice and send her out. Chuck says who cares if she loses they all lose, which is 100% true but it seems silly and it is all because the BC and racing seems to think dirt and poly are interchangable.

Scav Euro's go to Pro ride/Poly because their horses are equipped to handle it. Not because they are sporting the BC

I would love to try RA on the turf too..why not Fred? If you have nothing to prove and it doesn't have any potential risk physically..go crazy with her. Obviously the 3 yr old and older dirt division horses are limited, so why not look outside the box for new challenges? If she runs 5th in the Arlington Million next year it won't hurt her breeding value at all.

Why wouldnt you? What do you have to lose?

Or people love speed, poly is more fair.

fair to who? it's fair based on what? there are horses who have drastic changes in ability from one surface to the other-but one is fair?

poly, in all it's brand names, is a different surface. it's not dirt, it's not turf, and ability on one of those two surfaces will not indicate ability on awt. there's no correlation, there's nothing you can draw from a performance on one of those surfaces to enable you to conclude how a horse will perform when moved to a different surface. it's not an equalizer.

Exactly, it was brought yesterday that she won on Poly as to equal Zenyatta's record on both surfaces, I was then somewhat confusingly blasted for making some Cigar reference. Point is if it does equal Zenyatta's versatility on both surfaces, suggesting she can handle Pro-ride, why the sudden reluctance now? Which statement is more contradictory, she won at Keenland now and she cannot win at SA? I'm confused.

Jess might try turf he did with Curlin. Curlin wasn't a turf horse. Rachel may or may not be. I just think this whole mess is caused by the BC people not having a third surface classic.

Summer Bird(who has never raced on poly) and others are willing to take that risk? Why not the biggest star in the game? whose campaign is constantly being referred as a legacy in the making? Don't you want to know?

There is nothing to lose. Jess is pissed that the BC doesn't have dirt races this year. We have 3 surfaces and we used to have 2. The BC people decided that the 3rd surface was equal to dirt. It isn't. Jess thinks that sucks and so do I.

Totally seperate note, but we have had more issues with grass horses trying to run on poly than with horses going from dirt to poly.

I happen to think Parading is a perfect example of a horse that likes POLY is OK on turf and is an allowance horse on dirt. So because he got thru his conditions on dirt but won a graded stake on poly does he handle dirt and could he be successful on dirt in the Classic? If the horse was fast on dirt he would be in the Woodward instead Shug ships to the Pac Classic if there was a(and there should be) a Poly Classic he would be a perfect horse for it.. BUT the same horse couldn't beat 62,500k claimers on dirt.

Would it make sense to run him in the dirt Classic just to say they all lose?

Okay, so it sucks. Regardless, its the championhip and its going to be the last championship at Santa Anita for a while. By the time they have another one out there, Jess might be...not so interested in horse racing. I understand that he is pissed but is his personal agenda more important than the sport especially considering the comments he has made?

If he has nothing to lose, why not run? Becaue SHE might lose?

Call Linda Rice she will get you in contact with a good pharmacy.

I would rather watch the BC Classic with Rachel in it then not have her there. I love all racing especially at a high level. Anybody who says the BC Classic is better without Rachel is very special.

In FANTASY LAND..IF I owned Rachel I would be very torn. I know I would have NEVER sent her to the Preakness. I actually think I would have been really happy to win the Acorn, Goose, Coaching Club and Alabama. I think after the Alabama it would be the Beldame and then the boys. In all candor I think I would have been a total *****. I give Jess a lot of credit.

And what is Summer Bird's risk? He is the winner of the Belmont and Travers. He is believe it or not a son of the successful stallion Birdstone. Rachel doesn't have any risk either. Risk isn't the point. It is simple Rachel may or may not be a horse that can run as well on Pro ride as she runs on dirt. Her owner wants to make a statement. I don't blame him, he is entitled to do what he wants. He believes that by standing on ceremony the BC people will recognize that we need to have the BC Classic on dirt.

I'm not going to expound further on the topic since we went over this a month ago and my feelings haven't changed in regards to the BC - but I agree with your post above.

Agreed!

People are very unforgiving of losses. Look at how many people (stupidly) point out that she barely held on in the Preakness. Jackson isn't caring about the breeding value - floundering on a surface because you said "why the hell not" isn't going to earn you any extra points.

Look through the list of the Top 100 of all time - how many of those horses were specific to ONE surface. Are any of us thinking any less of them because of it? I sure hope the hell not.

I could care less about being on a Top 100 list. That's not the point..it's a personal agenda he has about the surface..nothing more, nothing less

What about the 'prior' BC's that were ran on dirt, like Sakhee, Giant's Causeway, George Washington (sigh)? That is just a few

I realize she isn't a 3-year-old, but I'd much rather have been able to see Zenyatta in the Hollywood Gold Cup or Pacific Classic.

The only great reason to want to see RA run in the Classic is from a gambling standpoint ... and it's so you can bet against her because she has very little shot of even hitting the Super hi 5 ticket in that absurd spot.

Who's to believe Jess Jackson though? Last year at this time he said he wasn't going to run Curlin in the Breeders Cup Classic. He caved. Why won't he cave again?

Can this argument also be made for Zenyatta? It seems like there is a double standard here when she plays it safe, and by no means am I defending her conservative campaign up until the BC.

I suppose the connections of Zenyatta have a personal agenda against wet race tracks and competition capable of running a Beyer better than 96.

Exactly.....

This isnt about surface though. This is about winning the biggest races and beating the best opponents. Why wouldn't you want to see her doing this in the championship? I won't think any less of her if she loses and she has some massive built in excuses anyway for those that would.

Do you think that maybe she could actually win?

What happens if the Third Bird wins tommorow?

Who freakin cares if he has a personal agenda about the surface - you think it's a wonderful surface and that fine, so run your horses on it. If he thinks it was a bad decision to run the BC at Santa Anita again and doesn't support it than he can run HIS horse elsewhere. Like he is doing - and doing a damn good job at it.

Do you do what everyone tells you you should do with your horses?

I feel the same way about that situation too. They are as accountable for this mess as Jackson.

I wonder when Sheik Mo offers his $10 Million purse in Dubai on their new surface if Jackson will be as stubborn?

Who cares what "people" say? She is a mare, she has no real value anyway because he would never sell her.

Looking through the top 100 makes you realize that most werent around when there were multiple surfaces. Hell turf racing in this country didnt become widespread till the 50's. And on that list are some who not only ran on two surfaces but excelled. Like Secretariat, Round Table, John Henry, Dr. Fager are 4 off the top of my head. Asking her to compete on poly is not such a stretch.

He's a hypocrite. Last year he took all the glory for running Curlin as a 4 year old and waved the "good of the game" flag proudly. I'm not going to stand firm that poly is good for racing or bad for it...that is a very debateable and legitimate conversation, but in my mind there is no way you can say that not running her in the sport's Championship races is consistant with what he was claiming last year with Curlin.

And I would say the same thing to Zenyatta's connection if the BC was at CD this year and they wouldn't ship there.

At least you're fair with your criticism.

I was harping this tune yesterday and I was quoted on a ref I made on Cigar, then I was reminded she won at Keeneland by DrugS and now she is a bet against in the BC, and she cannot handle the poly. I am confused. :zz:

When the best horse in the country skips the championship day because of a personal agenda I think it is something to discuss. Say his personal agenda was that he didnt like Frank Stronach and wont race at his tracks? Would you play a different tune then?

And I think that if most of us had the 8 million to buy her after the Oaks we too could do a fine job with her. It is liking saying Albert Pujols is having a great year because Tony LaRussa bats him third in the lineup. Scuds could manage the team and that guy would hit just as almost any trainer/owner combo could win with RA.

Yeah..but they would just run Zenyatta on the turf;)

Coolemoore customers are in the USA as well as Europe. Other then the stallion operations you don't see many coming for dirt races. Why would they?