Indeed, because of his running style. But even at his best, did he ever really beat the best competition when put in the toughest spots (save for the first time he won the Whitney)? It seems like he was most brilliant when he made easy leads against the lesser fields.

Given the hypothetcial both horses at their best, I still think Rachel would power on by. Thats not really a diss on Commentator, shes just in a different league than anyone else.

I see the apparitions of Exceller and Dare And Go as you describe this action.

Yup like Steve Crist said in one of his books about Saratoga, I am not quoting him exactly, is that Saratoga is his favorite meet to bet because of all the money in the pools from vacationers, etc. Folks will toss money at Mine That Bird because of The Derby. Should be a fun betting race. If I see 9/5 or better on Quality Road I may drop a couple $20's on a win bet.

I need to tread carefully on this race because of what happened with The Whitney - when I saw 2-1 on Commen I dropped a handful of $20's on a win bet because I thought that was the best value I had seen in a while on as close to a sure thing. We all know how that ended, but of course he was what 8 years old?

Its a tough racket Curt, aint it?

I made the mistake of think Commentator was "dead on the board" last year when he was sent off at 5/1 and crushed the field. This year he was equally as "dead on the board" at 2/1 and ran to it. I thought he should have been 6/5 against that field, albeit he hasnt been all that good as an 8 year old.

9/5 would be a tough price to take on any horse in the Travers, especially on a horse (QR) who lacks the conditioning all the others have. I can see the potential for greatness, but 9/5 or even 2/1 would be a huge bet against for me in this particular race.

I've learned to appreciate the talent both Birds and I think when this race is over one of them will be in the Winner's Circle, and maybe even a bird exacta.

Leaning towards Mine that Bird and may take a shot at a win bet if his price is good.

I think you guys are dating yourselves a bit here. For example, look at Saturday's betting.

On track $4.2m

Off track $14.7m

And how much of that $4.2 is the "idiot" money--maybe half, at best? (I think quite a bit less, actually).

Sorry, out of $19m, $2m of dumb tourist money cannot push the odds around that much (you also have to consider that some of the dumb money is going to wind up in the right spots, if even for the "wrong" reasons).

It is 2009, guys, not 1989.

While I completely agree with you I wouldn't think it's ridiculous to say that the same foolish dollars that will be bet on MTB because he's the Derby winner on-track won't also be wagered at simulcast facilities.

He's going to be a woefully short price relative to his chances of winning IMO.

NT

I know the older males will all carry 126lbs ... but will RA be in at 118lbs or 116lbs?

I wonder how Rachel going in the Woodward will affect the field size?

There were horses being entered becaue they were coming off good races and this was the next logical place to run (Cool Coal man, Bullsbay), there were going to be a few shippers....

Now, what do you think the field size will be and who will be the definites?

I agree with you--he will attract softer money everywhere because of his Derby win, but that will have little to with the "dumb tourists at the Spa" argument, which is really dated.

Do you really think all the money bet on Mine that Bird is dumb money and based on just 1 race?

I mean its not like he ran horrible in the Preakness or Belmont. And one can argue that he didnt get the best of rides (timing wise) in either race.

I'm not a huge fan of MTB but I think hes backed up his Derby win with at the very least some very competitive efforts and shown that he really does have a nice late kick.

Is he the worst play in the world given the fact that QR has run only once since March, and that was in a sprint?

i read the other day that at least one trainer was considering the woodward for his horse-if rachel did NOT run.

bullsbad, macho again, it's a bird, cool coal man are supposed to be there.

Very true.

Keep in mind that Mine That Bird, in his most recent start, brought in over 20K people to the sh!thole to end all sh!tholes .. Mountaineer Park .. and Big Drama went off favorite ... not the horse that won the Derby big, just missed in the Preakness, and supposedly should have won the Belmont easily if not for a stupid ride.

no, he's not. i believe in the upcoming race, he's the only horse victorious at 10f?

pletcher doesn't sound exactly confident about quality road in here.

While I'd never touch this horse with Smith up at anything LESS than 10:1, how woeful exactly, otherwise, are his chances? If QR is 'short', who does that leave that can outrun a poodle? He'll bury SB with anything resembling a decently timed ride, and when Kensei turns for home this time, assuming we don't get one of the NYRA super duper special speedball bias tracks, it won't be Flat Bold coming to get him. There's enough pace in the race that if anyone other than a ****** were riding him, the horse couldn't help but fall into a perfect setup.

P.S. he didn't appear to handle the track at MNR last out.

Good post. Couldnt agree more but I would take a shot at 4/1. I think thats more than fair, even with Smith riding. I love Quality Road as a racehorse but I have a bad feeling about him in this race.

Which horse the one that had 9 of his 14 wins in Ny Bred races and or Opt Claiming(five horse fields) or the 4 year old who won the Whitney on a unchallenged lead?

Obviously it would depend on his price. Give me the right price and I'LL bet on him. But Derby winners almost always take more money than they should.

Wasn't it shocking to see that KICKBACK specialist actually trying to fight back in the lane? You'd think he'd found some nuts.

I will take Summer Bird vs. Mine That Breathing even up. loser has to send 100 bucks to Byk made out to a TB rescue charity? You In?

I love the people elsewhere who think RA is running away from QR. If anything, this is the race to take a shot at him. Not to mention that if QR's people really want a piece of her now, there is absolutely nothing stopping him from showing up in the Woodward--there is no law requiring him to go in the Travers, it is a choice. We are past the point where she has to justify her choices. The Woodward is open company, which is a condition where neither Zenyatta or QR has ventured (yet). Show up or shut up to everybody else.

LOL, that may be the funniest thing I've read on here. I havent heard anybody with those sentiments but just reading it made me laugh. What has Quality Road done to warrant somebody "ducking him?" And that somebody being the greatest racehorse in training? Love it!

No.

Haha this is a joke right?
Why do you think The Travers is called the midsummer derby?

Training hours are being cut short tomorrow to allow for track maintenance activities.... it will be interestiong to see if the rail becomes live again...on the backside the jocks have been staying well off the rail the past few days...

Are you a parrot or a robot?

Which do you think would bring QR greater glory--beating a bunch of horses already trashed by RA or beating RA?

It is not a crime to have an original thought, you know.

The roster of past Woodward winners is at least as impressive as past Travers winners.

http://www.nyra.com/Saratoga/Stakes/Travers.shtml

http://www.nyra.com/Saratoga/Stakes/Woodward.shtml

i don't know why they call it that, it's really not in the middle of the summer.


the woodward gets some added luster with the filly going there.

If one or two of those pigs can't step up and beat this damn filly they should all be sent to Mike Vick's house immediately after the contest.



The great GZ won this race.


Can't have some 3yo filly on the same list as that great champion.



Just NOT acceptable, in my opinion...

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."--Mark Twain

are you serious?

With the bounty you have harvested from WB perhaps you should just send 100.00 to Sir Dickinson

"Kent is a legacy, Otter. His brother was a '59, Fred Dorfman." -- Robert Hoover

LOL, who calls it that? The last few runnings have been abysmally mediocre. There hasnt been a really good horse to win this race since Point Given.
Its still a very nice race and dwarfs all the toy track derbies, but it aint what it use to be.

This year's however is shaping up to be a good one.

You know what they should do is give her the rest of the year off and bring her back for the Milady, Vanity, and Clement Hirsch. Now those are some really interesting races.

NT

:tro:

Street Sense . Bernardini. Birdstone. Medaglia d'Oro? Belmont winner argument doesn't float either.

If the little filly wants a piece of big Z, she knows where to find her this fall … the WORLD THOROUGHBRED CHAMPIONSHIPS in Arcadia. :cool:

This is truly sporting. What better time to take on older males? No Filly of any age has ever won this race. She has beaten all the colts who could withstand the vigors of training and racing. Screw Quality Road. Make History. If he wanted a piece of her he should have entered the Preakness or Haskell. If he wants to enter the Woodward, I'm sure the NYRA would welcome that. Zenyatta is invited for sure.

I was getting ready to say Street Sense and Bernardini.

I wasn't going to go to the Spa for Forego Day, but I'm there now. No doubt.