5.2 lengths on average (Saturday) at 6F isn't abnormally slow?

It's among the slowest 10% of days I have on record for CD.

CD doesnt want to lose their Blue Ribbon safety award that the NTRA gave them.

Now THAT is funny!!!!!

That's twice Steve has said POTN looks good. I was just waiting to see how he likes it there. That's my choice. We will see whether he's what I think he is, or if he's what Andy says he is ("PIONEER OF NOTHING.")

Love to hear Andy debate John White on the prospects of POTN in the Derby on ATR...

The cards at Churchill this weekend were abnormally weak, with more cheap, short fields than I can ever remember for the opening weekend of a big race meet. And Tuesday's card is even worse.

I don't know where the par times came from, but assuming they are accurate, if you take out Saturday's first race, most of the races were within a second of "par." When I think of a track being slow, I think of horses running 6F in 1:13 and 1:14 (like we saw on the inner track this winter on several occasions), and miles in 1:39 and 1:40. That was not the case on Saturday, and on Sunday, most of the final times for the races were within a tick or two of the "par" times you provided.

l've never heard Andy on ATR but it's hard to imagine him or anybody getting a word in edge wise

Hey, who knows, another three or four contenders drop out and he could be in the super.

That's rarely one of my problems.

and then you can debate whether or not the Gandolphin horses hit the board.

I'm not sure Desert Party can't have an impact on this race. He's a better horse than Pioneer of the Nile.

Then again.....who isn't?

I realize that you are holding out hope that somehow I'm wrong... but I'm not.

The pars are over the last 3 years in a database I maintain. While I agree the fields were very weak this weekend, it's not atypical for the first weekend at CD because the better horses on the grounds either just ran at KEE or are waiting till next weekend (wouldn't you if it meant a free ticket for the Derby?) Second, I am comparing apples to apples- so if they're slow horses, they still ran slow compared to other slow horses. Third, a one second difference is an ETERNITY in this game, you know that. Finally, the times on the inner track this winter were because the horses running were truly terrible, worse than any year previous, not because the track was inherently safer- plus, you cannot compare a two turn mile to a one turn mile. the AVERAGE horse at Aqueduct will run 1.6 seconds slower on the inner (two turns) than the outer (one turn).

This is a very valid question. I think that Desert Party can have a impact on this race and with Q.R out, I think that Regal Ransom can have am impact as well.

arent the Churchill races generally weak except for a few days a year?

Regal Ransom will, without a doubt in my mind, have an impact on the race in some form or fashion.

If you were a betting man;) ... Do you think a Gandolphin horse hits the Super?

Gandolphin? Wasn't he in Lord of the Rings?

At least he won't have trouble finding a jockey?

If POTN doesn't win the Derby, he'll have his chance to do it (win a Triple Crown Race) in front of you at Big Sandy. Like father, like son. I like him better in the Belmont, anyways.

CNN Headline news just showed the crash!! It was awful!! That horse had a full head of steam built up,no rider and just plowed into the other.:zz:

I already saw him crawl around the track a couple of times at Saratoga.

I am heartened to see you already hedging for this weekend.

Un****ing believable that they find it necessary to show that....

Thank God they got that footage. It's really relevent to this weekend's race.

Sadly it's not unbelievable.

Unfortunately I agree. There is something morally corrupt about showing the death of a living being to grab a few ratings points...

The track cushion has been made deeper and deeper over the years ...

Have the horses become more sound as a result?

A lot of times when the track is very fast - it is wrongly viewed to be speed favoring by jocks and horseman - and the races tend to be a little more demandingly run.

I guess let's just run everything on poly track where the distance horses go 50 and change under holds and still fade through the stretch.

I'd hate to see a track like the one Gulfstream had on Sunshine Millions day.

yes

Is your avatar a bet with John White that POTN finishes exactly 8th in the Derby?

I enjoy Jon White a lot for the most part.

If POTN wins the Derby - I will have an avatar of myself here for the rest of the year.

If POTN finishes ahead of IWR - I will have an avatar of myself till Preakness day.

Everyone keeps begging for more television coverage... Well we got it.

They showed that Nascar crash a bunch of times this morning on ESPN too.

When the cameras are present, this is what you get.

I hope the NTRA doesn't take away the safety accreditation.

Don't you already?

Not quite.

And if POTN wins the triple crown ... naked photos.

Not exactly a great analogy. This was an accident outside of competition and unrelated to the Derby. The Nascar crash was during a race.

However, I understand why it was on, I just think it's unfortunate.

I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree over the relative speed of the Churchill racing surface this weekend. But just like all stakes races are not equal, neither are all claiming races. Sometimes, they come up tougher than usual; other times not. The races this weekend at Churchill all seemed to come up universally weak for the respective class levels, so we're not necessarily comparing apples to apples.

The inner track was slower than usual this winter (with admittedly weak horses sometimes clocking miles in 1:41 or 1:42) because of the cold winter preventing the NYRA track maintenance crew from watering the track, the result being a very dry, cuppy racing surface.

The 1:39 and 1:40 times to which I was referring were to one turn miles. In this regard, a perfect example of an abnormally slow, tiring racing surface was Aqueduct on Saturday, April 11. Churchill on Saturday pales in comparison.

Wouldn't that accomplishment be upsetting enough?

It is unfortunate, I agree.

But you and I both know these accidents happen every morning. There just isn't anyone there to see it.

When outside media shows up, they usually show the extremes of anything.

They won't show the replay of the Stephen Foster on CNN, but they'll show horses and/or people in an accident.

Just like they won't have a spot just showing traffic flowing nicely, but they'll feature a grisly wreck.

Let's not make this one of those Kurt Paseka/El Senor situations.

i really laughed

How about 2 recent TURF against-the-PACE 'classics':

1) Winter View in the Bewitch

2) Madeo in the Ingelwood.

Surprisingly, even Vic knows enough to understand that it's all about WHEN you move and not the fractions.:rolleyes:

You are doing quite a number on my ankles.

I saw Kurt this weekend.