I dont think we need their head, but we do need to stay one step ahead of the Vet's and Trainers who do try and gain the edge.

If I am not mistaken, the horse he mentioned was none other than IWR in the Gothem, but he said he was not sure if Dutrow's crew administered it.

My point here is simple, the Detention Barn makes no sense if there is not a zero tolerance policy with heavy penalties for any infraction. Measuring the penalty on a case by case basis basically makes the Detention Barn a joke. I refuse to believe that Mullins was not aware of the rules that nothing can be administered. He had to know what he was doing was wrong but worth the risk with these type of penalties.

I personally don't try to guess who cheats and who does not and I find it laughable that people peg certain trainers as those who don't cheat. It would not shock me if Matz was caught with a positive and I would feel no different about this if Matz got caught.

hopefully he hides the hoses and bicarb better than he used to.

he's a guy who has run afoul of the rules more than once, and knows all about the rules and regs in place in a detention barn. he chose to ignore the rules.
fact is, he and ny cut a deal. and it sucks. if that's all the time you get for ignoring detention barn rules, then yes, it's a joke. i'm beginning to think it's all a joke. dutrow still has a case he's fighting from a year ago, as does asmussen. pletcher still has one over his head from the bc with wait a while, as someone pointed out above. trainers think it's a joke, and usually refer to suspensions as vacations. then, when they return, they get better horses from owners looking to cash in on whatever magic bullets these trainers use.

you call it wanting a lynching? i call it turning a blind eye, forgiving repeat offenders, and excusing what shouldn't be excused. the guy's a repeat cheater. seven days, bfd. oh, but it was 'just a mint'. yeah, cause mullins said so-and god knows he's always honest. :rolleyes:

you don't have to guess with some of them-they have records of their repeated offenses. mullins being one of them, dutrow another, assman, oneill....you know, the trainers getting more and more horses to train every day.

BTW, they should of had an episode where Barney gets accused of messing with kids(not exactly a stretch.) The town would want his head, and Andy would investigate(and save stickfigure's bacon.)

I am not defending Mullins either. He has a checkered career in terms of cheating and, as it should, people are angry with a guy who appears to keep trying. I am annoyed that he tries to say he didn't know. The first thing a trainer does even when they are shipping to Philadelphia for a maiden race or claimer is to be clear what the states' rules are. I could possibly understand more if the horse got something that was legit in his state but banned in ours. But he did this in a DETENTION BARN. There is no excuse. Should he be beheaded? Of course not. I mean, look what the frenchman got for snake venom. And he has been banned from two countries already. But what is unfuriating is his brazen smile as he acts like we are all a bunch of fools who will buy his bs. That is why there is alot of rage about him. We wouldn't feel the same way about Matz because Matz has never been found with hoses and bicarb hanging from his trunk. There are trainers of great character out there and some of them have had positives. Mistakes are made. Particularly with these large stables that stretch the organizational capacity of some of these trainers. However we don't talk about them that much. We do talk about the ones that have demonstrated poor character in the past, as we should. Mr. Mullins is one of them. He deserves a suspension that doesn't fit so nicely into his schedule. And we deserve a clean game where the information we use in handicapping is all that needs to be considered. We also need a game that is regulated by one body where the rules are clear to all. Dam, just listened to TVG, we also need a game where the world doesn't sit in heightened anticipation awaiting Go-Go's decision regarding what horse will be blessed by his presence. jeesh what a game.

I'm all for banishing the cheaters when they get caught. In this instance I just feel like the whole story is not out there. I'm not sure what happened, and the story that is out there makes me feel like Mullins might have be misled to believe that Air Power was acceptable. Maybe I'm 100% wrong, but what punisment do you want? To banish him for life because he wanted to give a horse cough medicine. That's like the feds putting John Gotti away for life for tax evasion.

In my opinion, the best response of the day!:tro:

It is because she's really replying to me but has to act like I'm on ignore. BFD. :rolleyes:

But if the whole story isn't out there who do you think that benefits? He has one of the favorites to win a race that is the holy grail of the sport. I just don't like these "suspensions by appointment". It is a sham. Every suspension you see from Jock's to trainers get dropped usually by half or more. And most of the time for no other reason than they aren't appealing it. Than if they do appeal it, they get suspended for less time still with another "suspension by appointment". They do need to get tougher. Obviously Paragallo has been violating rules of decency in the sport for a very long time and people still try to cover it up. Campo stands by Paragallo even when Achilles of Troy appeared to be unable to stand when he came back to Campo's barn a few weeks ago. But what gets lost in this whole trainer's as cheaters debate is ... US. The fans who enjoy the game and bet the game. When they cheat, they aren't just taking advantage of the other horses/owners/trainers but they are taking advantage of us who bet these horses without all the information available. He accepts the suspension, it should start now! Not when it is good for HIM.

Pants, did you start drinking early this morning? Who are you talking about? lol

having a guy get put away for air power-yeah, that sounds extreme. but when you phrase it as 'a repeat offender did it yet again'-does it still sound so innocuous? he's a cheater and more than once, and he just got caught again. whether he was giving the horse 'just' air power, or air power with a little something extra is beside the point. how many times should a guy be allowed to violate the rules? five, ten, twenty five (apparently you win an eclipse award for best trainer once you crack two dozen). how many is too many?
perhaps they should institute a points system. lesser offenses, lesser points. bigger offenses, bigger points. point out, get out.
my take is that the punishment should fit the level of the crime. small time trainers don't have the deep pockets of some of the big name trainers. so, a violation in a graded race should be higher $-wise than a $5k claimer for instance. i have said all along that penalty money should be based on a percentage, not a flat rate. $2500 means next to nothing to mullins, but is a lot to some other trainers.

thing is, until owners start going to trainers who follow the rules, this stuff will continue. supply and demand.

I've always said, I don't care if Mullins was giving Gato Go Win a dose of his grandma's chicken soup, he broke the rules and if he's too stupid to know what the detention barn is for, well he's too stupid to train. If he knows and broke the rules anyway, he's too big of a cheat to train. Either way, I fail to see how he's not too (fill in the blank) to train. By all means, lets let him run a horse in the Derby so that when the media does any digging whatsoever should I Want Revenge win, they'll throw this back in our faces. Great job.

Why do people take this so personally? I don't think what the media says about Mullins, Dutrow or 8 Belles reflects upon me at all, the same way I don't think the steroids scandal in baseball reflects upon me at all. While I may bet more money on one than the other, I've learned it's just better to do what someone above said and adjust my handicapping accordingly. If a horse is hurt that's another story, they don't have a choice like Barry Bonds, etal.

it's taking it personally that some of us want cheaters to be penalized? or maybe even run out of the game if they continue?

The only problem with this argument is that administering Air Power on raceday is illegal in CA, too.

so much for that....

That's what I meant by personally; this poster obviously takes whatever is said on tv about horseracing personally. If Merlinsky is an owner, I understand that. Why you (Danzig) took what I said personally, I don't know.

So, let me ask an innocent question here. I am not instigating anything here, nor do I want to get caught up in semantics. However, did you really expect Mullins to get handed a suspension that would start immediately, or at least start and run so that it kept him out of the Derby? And, if so, did you expect that suspension to stick, meaning that Mullins would be kept out of the Derby? Thanks.

Eric

Practically speaking, I don't think it matters. I think other than Lasix, nothing is allowed on race day in NY - so what % of horses get something on race day, orally, topically, feed-wise, or some other way?

While I think Mullins needs to be punished, I don't think that was the basis of his arguement. I'd rather throw out whatever he says and stick to limiting the discussion to the confines of the rules. I get your point though.

I am butting in.
Yes I was hoping.
That would have sent the message.

Would it have EVER happened. Probably not.
It has again pointed at a great weakness in the whole mess.
No overall governing body. No clear penalties for violations
that work from state to state. It would all lead to a legal morass.

i guess i thought-incorrectly-that ny took their detention barn and rules seriously. in light of the suspension given to biancone and his vet, i guess i expected more than a week-and yes, i know that wasn't in ny. did i think it would begin right away? no, since it seems appeals can drag on. keep him out of the derby? not with it coming up in two weeks. the timing isn't right. but i did expect more than seven days when it all came down.

Did NYRA ever release any kind of statement about what unfolded that day. With some sort of account from the security people involved?
Basically, is Mullins speaking the truth. Did the security people witness Mullins bring in the Air Power and let him walk right in? And if confiscated was it ever tested?

i haven't seen anything from them. as for mullins bringing something in, i can't help but think his bucket o'stuff only got a cursory glance. hell, when's the last time a trainer tried to give something in the D barn in new york?! i deal with going in and out of 'security' gates on an almost daily basis, if the guards in the barn there are as diligent as they are where i go, you could bring freaking jumbo the elephant thru and no one would notice.

He had the application syringe in a pocket.
Thats all I saw printed.

Even if they had said go right in and take care of your
horse, he should have immediatley thought they are trying
to set me up. Point is, he knows the rules. He is well accustomed
with rules because he has broken so many, accidentalty or not.

For me it has nothing to do with the product in question (even though he's used much more serious drugs in the past). It's his blatant disregard for the rules of the game, which everybody has to abide by. Giving him only 7 days only allows him to continue to boldly cheat, even at the highest levels. As a bettor, all I want is a level playingfield so I don't have to handicap which trainer has the 'juice' today.

i know mullins even mentioned that the owners of GGW were initially told that he had smuggled the syringe into the barn inside his jacket. but he 'set them straight'. and god knows, if there's anyone you can believe, it's jeff mullins.



hahahahahaha omg

A lot of the discussion seems to center on what should be the penalty in this case. I am not aware of any trainer previously being caught treating a horse in the detention barn since that program was initiated by NYRA. The best analogy that I can draw was the June 2004 incident in which Ralph Nicks was determined to have administered a shot of a non-performance enhancer on race day (http://www.racing.state.ny.us/racing/racing.home.htm), an offense that led to his firing as Team Valor's then-private trainer. In those pre-detention barn days, and for that trainer who beforehand had a spotless regulatory record, Nicks was suspended for 15 days and required to pay the then-maximum fine of $5,000.

Compare the Nicks situation with the Mullins incident. In 2009, as opposed to 2004, we have a detention barn, the clear purpose of which is known to even the most casual New York racing observer, let alone the trainer of the favorite for New York's most important Kentucky Derby prep. As opposed to a trainer with a spotless record (Nicks) treating a horse on a sleepy June Wednesday afternoon at Belmont Park, in Mullins, we have a trainer whose lengthy record illustrates complete disdain for the rules (and its fans, if the T.J. Simers quote is believed) treating a horse in a stakes race on the "biggest" day on Aqueduct's racing calendar. And in 2009, in the aftermath of the Eight Belles tragedy, we have a new Chair of the NYSRWB who claims to be putting a premium on "integrity" issues. All of these factors would suggest that Mullins should get a far stiffer penalty than Nicks.

That they chose to hand out a penalty less than what Nicks was given sends a truly regrettable message; that is, that despite racing leaders' professed desire to clean up the sport, it's still business as usual. I agree with those who have argued that, if this is the penalty for violating the terms of the detention barn, then NYRA ought to shut the whole thing down and stop putting the horses and the horsemen through what is an apparently an unimportant, costly incovenience.

I don't understand his taking anything you say personally. After all, when chucklestheclown speaks I always think it is just part of the act.

Personally I think his suspension is a joke but find Sabini's comments more troubling.

"Although the penalty will not affect Mullins's ability to prepare I Want Revenge for any of the Triple Crown races, New York State Racing and Wagering Board chairman John D. Sabini said he believes the board came down hard on Mullins.

"Trainers who wish to participate in New York racing are responsible for knowing our race day rules and our medication rules," Sabini said in a statement. "These sanctions should send a clear message that ignorance will never wash as an excuse. I applaud the stewards for scratching Gato Go Win when they did. This horse was flown all the way to New York from California for a single race. As a result of what he did on April 4, Mr. Mullins is learning the hard way that there are tough consequences for not being more familiar with the rules of New York.""

If this clown thinks that they have done something positive with this suspension then he is dumber than most political appointees which in itself is a difficult task. Maybe someone should inform this moron that a 7 day vacation after the Derby is hardly 'coming down hard, a clear message or tough consequences'. For all the misguided souls that believe that federal intervention is a good option, here is exhibit A why govt appointees who have no clue about what they are regulating wont do a damn bit of good.

Regardless of what Mullins gave the horse he should have gotten a 60 day suspension at least. If you are going to have a detention barn than at least attempt to make it relevant. Allowing ignorance of the rules or other supposed mitigating circumstances to come down with a 15 day suspension is a joke.

I dont know all of the legalities of NYRA's position in this whole fiasco but if they are legally allowed to, I dont know why they cant impose some house sanctions like no Mullins in NY for 6 months.

As for Hartley, he stands The Green Monkey, need I say more?

so, unless they gave other punishment we haven't heard about, i wonder what the hell he's talking about regarding tough punishment....

He is an idiot. He believes that this was a big deal because they shipped the horse from CA and had to scratch. Like Mullins is on the hook for that expense.

hell, they gave back all the entry fees. pfft. yeah, he's out shipping that horse, but it was part of a group, so how much are we talking really?

too many folks are too quick to excuse stuff like this, to downplay it as tho it's no big deal. mullins broke the rules, claims he didn't know, and that he was only giving air power. as tho anything he says shouldn't be held under scrutiny. as tho he has so much credibility, and we should just say 'oh, ok'. hehe, carry on.

"To put an end to this unfortunate event, I take responsibility for the infraction and accept the penalty imposed. I have dedicated my life to caring for Thoroughbred racehorses. I owe it to I Want Revenge, his owners, the racing fans, and, indeed, the entire racing industry to end this distraction now."


oh, such a martyr for the cause. :rolleyes:

it's official, mullins is as dumb as a person can possibly be. was he born yesterday? exactly how long has this guy been in the business?


http://www.courier-journal.com/artic...o+action+taken

I'm sure the industry is loaded with trainers who are "smart" but couldn't win a race if they were handed a cloned Dr. Fager.

Good point. But Mullins doesn't appear to be the problem, to me.

Good grief, can't tarnish the Derby with the shoddy machinations and ignoring/breaking of the rules by the Derby entry trainers.

Gag.