Why don't you just say it? Sun King couldn't be a top class horse, because he's not out of some "pretty horsey" sire, his PA Derby was pretty good and it was around 2 turns...

Bold Brooklynite,
It is no use trying to talk sense to this teddyrex clown. This is the same guy who (under a different username) over on the ESPN board accused the people who set up THIS board of being responsible for the troll behavior on the ESPN board. He claimed they were trying to drum up business for Derby Trail, and refused to admit that he was clearly wrong. The guy isn't really worth a response. Johnny V. isn't any good? Give me a break,

Lung infection... Alex had chronic lung infections.

Yeah that was it. Apparently that was Johnny V's fault!!

I just find it mildly amusing that a certain 'clique' always jumps on here after a favorite in a big race goes down and calls him a fraud, overrated, etc. If Invasor goes down next time out the same people who are praising him today will call him overrated. Take what they say (and you know who they are) with a grain of salt...

I DO think Flower Alley is overrated, but I have thought that since his BCC second place. I still think he's a nice colt, but I don't think he's as great as some have made him out to be. I think that Perfect Drift (if he races obviously) will get by both Flower Alley AND Invasor in the BCC, so I don't think Invasor is perfect either but I definitely think that Invasor is a nicer colt than Flower Alley.

You're a putz, you know that? You attack me at every chance you get and it's pathetic. Give me a break.......the PA Derby was a long time ago and he didn't beat much. Everytime Sun King has.....nope, you know what? I'm not wasting my time on you. Please feel free to skip my posts so as not to aggravate your already short temper.

That IS the real reason that you don't like him though, isn't it? He's outrun his pedigree by far and ran one hell of a race today against a very classy horse.

You guys are way too much. If I post something with ANY kind of negative slant, it's because I don't personally like the horse. I'm sorry that my impressions of this board were wrong; I thought it was a comfortable place to post with knowledgable and fun racing fans. Instead, I find the same old, same old as I find at other boards. I may sound pathetic, but at this point, I don't care. I'm just tired of being singled out for my comments.

I changed my mind. Sun King is the greatest horse ever; he's never run a bad race. I have nothing negative to say about him or about any horse.

Maybe I'm being childish but I hate my opinions being invalidated because of some odd personal grudge and I'm not going to just sit here and take it. By the way, if you had taken any time to read my other posts (or was it in this one, I forget), you would have seen that I said that Sun King was a very nice horse and I would love to own him.

Looks like it's back to lurking, where the only one who could possibly get on my case is me.

Speaking for myself - presuming that I may be included among said "clique" because of my tendency to judge on a harsh curve - some of this comes about as a natural response to premature hyperbole.

Some people apparently are only happy when they feel that they are in the presence of greatness. I watched today's Whitney and thought, "Hmm, decent effort by the winner. Looks like Flower Alley wasn't ready for a race like this off one race in nine months." I don't have to believe that I witnessed greatness; I'm happy with appreciating a good finish by a horse who's won three straight at three different tracks over three different distances. If Invasor goes out the next time and doesn't run a step, that doesn't change my impression of this race, and of Invasor's merits, today. But if I go out and proclaim to one and all that Invasor is the best horse ever, and he'll never lose again, etc., etc., not only am I going to irk people who aren't sold on Invasor being the best horse since ______, I'm going to look pretty foolish if he runs like a rat next time.

Of course, no one wants to look foolish. But for whatever reason, a lot of people seem to want to be the first kid on the block to recognize the next great horse. Since very few of these actually turn out to be great, there's a whole lot of irritating premature hyperbole, a whole lot of Hindenburgs, and a whole lot of backlash every time one goes down to a bad defeat.

Not that a defeat, even an ugly one like Flower Alley's run in the Whitney today, should be end all-be all evidence of fraud. But that's a side effect of the times. With horses running as infrequently as they do now, I suppose newer racing fans have necessarily come up in the sport with the idea that greatness is demonstrated by an instance rather than a pattern. The natural extension of proclaiming greatness off a singular episode of perceived brilliance is that greatness crumbles off a singular debacle. Horses, at least perceived superhorses, are not allowed to have an off day anymore.

That hasn't always been the case. For example, nobody remembers Kelso as a fraud because he stunk in the 1962 Met Mile; the weight of his accomplishments override the fact that once in a while, he - like most superhorses from the mythic age of heroes - had bad days. But when you have 10 lifetime starts and your reputation rides on one or two big wins, all of a sudden a stinker matters.

So, strictly from the FWIW department, that's my view on the matter.

I am certainly not a part of that 'clique' and I don't think I ever started a thread like that, but I will warn you that if Bernardini loses this year I will be on here in about 2 seconds questioning how the horse that people already awarded HOY and the best horse in 25 years could possibly have lost.

As for Flower Alley being overhyped on this board, I don't think he was. I have come on this board and PREDICTED that FA would win HOY, and I know some other people have too. There is nothing wrong with making predictions, even when it turns out that we were probably wrong. Some big Bernardini fans however are not making predictions but declarations like "This horse can't lose." To me there is a difference. People that make declarations like that deserve to eat a little crow, if they are wrong.

I don't have anything against you at all... I don't even know you so I'm unsure why you would think that I have a personal grudge against you when this is the first post of yours that I've ever even responded to. :confused:

i'm not too sure about sun king catching grief over his breeding....but i think invasor would get a lot more attention and praise if he was a ky blue-blood, rather than an upstart immigrant.
the jury should still be out on flower alley....not a GREAT horse (yet, maybe never?)but one race neither should make a horse great, or take him so far out of contention. we've all seen horses throw in a clunker and rebound. maybe he'll come back like gangbusters...maybe he won't.

this race yesterday demonstrates EXACTLY why all judging on a horses greatness or lack thereof should only be discussed after retirement. months after. if flower alley comes out with a legit excuse, even god forbid one that causes his retirement, would he forever be bashed because his last was bad? shouldn't his runs at three, esp his good runs at saratoga late last summer, be part of the equation?

I am a CLOWN!
 

Yep, a clown.

Favorite Clown movie: IT

Worst Clown ever: Bozo

Worst imitation of a clown: John Gacy

Scariest Clowns: Any in any circus.

Funniest Clown: Anything called a "class clown."

Funniest Clowns on Film: The Three Stooges
:D

I did watch the race, however, I was focused on Flower Alley so I had to rely on the Equibase notes. I believe that he was taken very wide the whole way, and DID get beat by some very so-so horses. Just another opinion.

And, yes, I did suggest that the source of the trolls were from the producers of this board. Just think that the timing was a little curious.:D

some people think they're very clever, or that there must be a REASON WHY for everything. steve has been working on getting this forum together for quite some time, thankfully it is now here.

many of us still visit espn...sadly the board is still swamped with posters that i know i'd rather avoid. but i still wade over there once in a while, hoping for a change.

i also was a t'bred times poster, which was drummed out of existence by the same type losers that showed up at espn.

in other words, the trolls are everywhere....but by all means, add the 'espn board/derby trail' conspiracy to your list!

My belief that all human beings can be redeemed ... even the lowliest among us ... remains unshaken.

That's why I try and try and try ... to reach out and help all whom I come in contact with.

I guess I'm just ... I'm just ... an incurable idealist and starry-eyed romantic.

oh lord...

See ... see ... this is what I mean!

My efforts to redeem Teddy have already started to pay off ... he's beginning to see the light ... he's becoming self-effacing ... and owning up to past mistakes.

Oh frabjous day! Coolah-coolay!

I'm redeeming another human being!

...and some people take themselves way too seriously on this and other boards. It's not a personal affront if somebody disagrees with you. There is never a reason to resort to name calling because somebody sees something differently than you. Troll or not, it is a common problem in all boards.

My opinion is, afterall, the best!:cool: I did hit the 13-1 longshot in race one at Saratoga last Saturday. :eek:

OH HOW GREAT YOU ARE!!! Bold Brooklyn!

Then you come across someone like me who sees right through your grandiose crack induced self proclamations.

LMFAO!!!

Keep trying...you'll never convince me Bold Fraud.

btw...Is your library time about up yet? And, how did your refrigerator box stand up to all the rain the other night? Making much with your bottle and can deposits? Still doing windshields on the exit ramp?

And finally, have you EVER posted a winner in ANY race?

I look forward to your thread in "selections", Bold Fraud.

I don't really think that is fair to publicly (and obviously falsely) accuse people from this board of ruining the ESPN Horse Racing board and then say "Oh well, it was just my opinion, so there is no reason to get mad at me."
Falsely accusing people isn't just a difference of opinion. You were flat-out wrong about that, and those that disagreed with you (pretty much everyone) were flat-out right. Some things are differences of opinion and some things are just facts. You badmouthed people on this board that I have a lot of respect for over on the ESPN board, and so when you come on here and call Johnny V a "joker" I think you don't deserve to be taken seriously.
But hey, that's just my opinion.

I watched the replay, just not quite fit enough. Keep an eye on it. Was w/ the pace the whole race and just didn't have the gas in the tank in the end. A couple good works and this horse will be ok. I was all over Invasor in this race anyway, but FA was not as horrible as it looked.