Obviously you haven't seen MissingLisaLewis' at his best.

I have no idea how Eight Belles would get his vote but even less understanding of how Commentator gets his vote for sprinter since he didnt win a sprint stakes this year. And while Assmussen getting the eclipse isnt exactly a feel good story I cant come up with Hollendorfer in that catagory either

He won the Richter Scale at 7 furlongs by double digits at GP.

ok then he deserves it

you have to have one start in north america to be considered for an eclipse, zarkava obviously doesn't qualify. curlin does, and i can see taking his dwc into consideration, since high chaparral (for example) only had ONE start in NA when he won, so obviously foreign races are considered.

Curlin....I guess, but for me personally it's the one who made me the most $$$ in 2008.....

Kickin N Screamin

:D :$: :tro:

I say give Steve a special Eclipse for scoring us those calendars.

No idea? Was Proud Spell's Oaks or Alabama that much better than her Derby? Unless you're voting for Goldikova, I think Eight Belles has as good of argument as any other 3YO filly.

except that it's an award for the year, and sadly eight belles wasn't able to run the year. her derby placing was good, but not good enough imo to warrant the award. sentimentality shouldn't place her above a horse who had a better season, regardless of why that season occurred. keep in mind barbaro didn't win top 3 yo-and he showed a ton more than eight belles did up to that point in their careers-and he lost to bernardini, who had a very good year. barbaro may have had a better one, but generally the award isn't given on speculation.

None of Curlin's or Zenyatta's performances this year impressed me as much as Goldikova's at the Breeders Cup.

oh, I agree with you, but, I could see how someone could argue that Eight Belles was the champion 3YO filly.

It's hard to not be impressed with her turn of foot, and I certainly was impressed with her ability and think she's the real deal...but it's also certainly impossible to overlook that she got what was probably the most beautiful trip of any Breeders' Cup winner at this year's event. But yes, her quarter mile of running was something to behold.

Yes, She got a great trip, I look at it as a strength rather than being lucky...the pace was quick, she has a high crusing speed, despite being close to the pace she booted clear in a split second and it was over. That was impressive if you ask me, more than what Curlin showed in his last 3 races.

And don't get me wrong...there were lots of "wow"s falling out of my mouth at Santa Anita after that race, I just think in retrospect it wasn't quite as amazing as it looked after sitting just off of the almost-certain-to-collapse-speed of Thorn Song and Daytona, and though it was a quicker pace, she got kind of exactly the trip that played to her style...cruising along with the rest and then seeing which runner can sprint the fastest for a quarter mile.

I give her plenty of credit where credit is due, but I don't think that the actual merit of the performance stacks up at all to the breathtaking visual of the performance...which is not imply that it wasn't a huge run, just maybe not as huge as it seems.

I didn't mean to imply you were not giving her credit, I know where you were coming from. The 2nd and 3rd place horses coming out of the race didn't distinguish themselves in their next starts, though one raced in HK which is never easy. Her form in Europe certainly suggests her BC race was not a fluke, rather it is the type of performance we expected. To me it was more impressive than any of Ouiji Board's BC's and that one is held to a very high standard over here.

Oh wow, you really do love Goldikova...I won't even touch that one :D

You dont get awards for the races you lose. She basically was the 2nd best of a bad lot in the Derby.

Obviously Ouija Board was a great filly I have no argument with anyone there, really I cited her BC races to be accurate and not her entire career. She beat Film Maker twice in her own division in the BC, whereas Goldikova beat males and given how she did it with an explosive turn of foot. In my opinion I was more impressed by Goldikova's race than any of the 2 BC wins Ouija Board ran.

very true.

i'm trying to keep in mind that you're comparing bc races, not the horses...because ouija board was a special horse. i'd also think that everyone expected both of these gals to win due to ability in the one(OB), and the competition, or lack thereof, facing the other.

Give it to Curlin in a very weak year. Hystericalady would have beaten Zenyatta on the dirt this year IMO.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd rank Ouija Board's '05 FM Turf way above this year's mile.

Goldikova basically had Kip Deville, Precious Kitten, and Whatsthescript to beat along with the seemingly over the top Daytona and the run or none type Shakis, while Ouija Board had Film Maker, Megahertz, Wonder Again, Intercontinental, Karen's Caper, and if you want to stretch it, even Wend to beat (though she was never a real GI runner).

I'd take that latter cast as more rock solid than beating males in this year's BC. I think beating males only counts if there is a solid cast of males to beat lined up against you.

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

you have no proof of that

In a fairly run race, with a legit pace, this is probably true. But if that Lady's Secret of this year had been run on dirt, I truly believe that Zenyatta would have a loss on her record.

Zenyatta is a big fav of mine but it is going to be so difficult to keep her streak alive. She could have easily lost the day of the Vanity. It was a true test for her heart to win on a day when she was not at her best.

Here is a predicition for '09:
Cocoa Beach will be the first to beat Zenyatta.

Brian, the 2004 race OB beat Megarhertz and Wonder Again, Moscow Burning set a slow pace that day. In 05 she actually finished 2nd to Intercontinental. Probably the best horse she ever beat in the BC was Wait A While in 06. She had a nice turn of foot and her longevity is a plus also, as for Goldikova I do think there is something to be said of a 3 yr old filly beating older horses, but more it's the way in which she did it, her turn of foot arguably was more impressive than any of Ouija Board's BC races. There's no denying both are super nice fillies and maybe I am in the minority here but I'd take her race over any of Ouija Board's in a second.

Contrary Danzig, I do have a great deal of respect for Ouija Board, she danced alot dances and more times than not she always showed up and accounted herself well. Her connections definitely took chances with her and I think she is well respected for that and deservedly so!

I have a REALLY hard time seeing Zenyatta beating Hystericalady in the Fleur de Lis, Delaware Handicap, or Molly Pitcher in 2008.

i think someone let mort read the last 2 pages here and that's what really offended him.

Curlin for HOY, grudgingly. In a side vote, best horse to never race in Louisiana this year who is still in training...Costa Rising.

;


I believe you need to go back and look at the Lady's Secret on youtube. There was no way Zenyatta was going to have a loss in that race. Dirt or otherwise.

I believe that, and this is not meant as a jab at you, but you have never shown any objectivity towards the way you view Zenyatta. Zenyatta is a far superior filly to Hystericalady but the conditions of that race (small field, clear lead, slow pace) would have given Hystericalady a clear advantage over Zenyatta on that day had it been on dirt. The fact that it was on synthetic, which took away greatly from Hystericalady's ability, made that race much more deceptive than it actually was. The easy that it appeared Zenyatta won with was because of the surface. That was evidenced not in how Zenyatta beat Hystericalady but in how Hystericalady was barely able to beat out the third place horse, a horse that she's far superior to. I don't need to look at the race again to see what I saw the first 5-10 times that I've seen it.

The only way to know for sure is if they both ran on a dirt surface together, which won't happen since HL is likely retired. :(

maybe zenyatta can continue her ways, and steal the record from that monster, peppers pride. that would make mirajas day for sure!

They will likely never race against each other, when is it supposed to happen, Zenyatta is likely to be in the classic next year if she is still unbeaten.

i doubt it.

so what your saying is Zenyatta is not as good on dirt (which is wrong, watch her Apple Blossom) and that is some event that a fluke happens, like 24 and 50 that should could beat her. I guess we can lay out any scenario and guess at what COULD happen. Fact is they raced twice and HL got embarrassed like a second rate horse (which she is really if you want to look historically) and Zenyatta is a very good horse in any generation, and frankly on any surface (I would love to see her on turf).

not sure what you are talking about. I said HL is not as good on synth.

Actually, I believe we could both be as you describe. Not a lot of objectivity, but for different reasons.
I realize Hystericalady favors dirt over any other surface. I know this. Her trainer knows this. Her owners know this. The gamblers know this. They still ran her on it. Analysis of races is great. However, sometimes one can get carried away by overthinking a particular race scenario to the point one's perspective is compromised by numbers, stats and what if's. This is a point where you and I differ greatly.