Damn it!!! You stole all my thunder.:mad:

Indian Blessing is already a champion, and can now rate, something she could not do earlier in the year, i think shes as good if not better then Music Note and Proud Spell, and if they faced today things could be different, especially with her clear pace advantage

no doubt if zaftig was right its a lock....imo

she's a very good sprinter but would have very little chance against those two right now going long. . .

It's just a fun thing to speculate on, for most people, I'm going to guess.

If you really think about it, most things people seem to care about really don't matter much, if at all.

As for liking a sire, in my case, with Indian Charlie, I was fanatic about that horse when he broke his maiden. Along with Rahy and Cee's Tizzy, two of my other favorites when they ran, I couldn't see how they wouldn't be successful stallions when they retired and I really enjoyed watching their progeny run.

i don't know whether indian blessing could beat them or not, but i don't think that is how you're supposed to vote anyway-based on who would win a race. i think it's supposed to go to the most dominate horse in their division from spring til fall. indian blessing certainly fits the bill, and now has taken on older horses with success.
look back at azeri for example-there was no dominant male all year, but i'd imagine most would say street cry would have beaten her head to head. but he didn't dominate all year, and she did.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. . . I was responding to PG's claim that Indian Blessing could beat the other two going longer now that she can rate.

this thread has taken an unfortunate turn. Thanks for your responses, but I am sorry I even asked the question.

Really? What's so bad about it? Seems more civil than most threads on here to me. . .

Seriously. I thought this has been one of the more healthy and civil debates on here recently. What turn has it taken Betsy?

Probably because Andy called her out on the A.P. Indy thing. . .

ok, gotcha.

I get what you're saying, but, again, I don't think another loss from PS rules her out of the eclipse if both Music Note and Indian Blessing lose in the BC as well.

Of course I realized that, but offered up that it's probably something similar for PG as well.

The Prioress is a totally bogus G1, and the Test is questionable, too. And, yes, classic-distance animals will ALWAYS have the advantage over sprinters because that is the what being a Thoroughbred is all about - having the speed AND the stamina to keep going to win at a distance of ground in the best races. Pure sprinters, however talented, are lacking an important element in their makeup.

The Eclispe will probably be decided at the Breeders Cup, alot of the fillies mentioned here all have good points to be chosen, if ever the concept of the BC was a good one it is for this division, I certainly couldn't decide right now.

The Test is a very important race. 7 furlongs is basically the one distance where routers and sprinters are in neutral territory. If you look at the last 30 Test winners, route fillies have won their fair share (Go For Wand, Versailles Treaty, Society Selection, November Snow, Lady's Secret, etc.). Its also produced 2 BC Sprint winners in Very Subtle and Safely Kept, as well as the dam of at least one BC Sprint winner (Blitey, who produced Dancing Spree who was also a Grade 1 winner at 10f). This latter factoid brings up another interesting characteristic of the Test, its produced several outstanding broodmares in its history.

in most years, you would be correct, the bcd would decide. but this year of course will be different, and some of the fillies and mares at the top of their division may not even run. and if they do run, but falter on an unfamiliar surface......ought to be interesting.

I for one think Indian Blessing is the best 3yo filly out there. And I think she'll get it if the circumstance above happens!

Sounds like Proud Spell is done for the year, at least according to Blood Horse.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/47177.htm

she hasn't had a break all year, so they're stopping on her. she may run in '09. i hope she returns, but that has no bearing i'm sure!!

eh, I don't care that everyone knows that I love AP Indy. That doesn't bother me. It only bothers me (and not just when it comes to horse racing) when people think I can't be objective because of my rooting interest.

I think I was being objective in this case, but it's apparent that I was probably the only one who thought so. Thus, I haven't reposted in this thread. I just don't like banging my head against the wall, ,especially when posting on message boards is supposed to be relaxing and fun. It's not fun when I have to constantly explain myself.

I thought the logic was flawed from the get-go.

Trying to present Proud Spell's late season loss in the Cotillion (to a potential up-and-comer within the division no less) as though it was a defining race in her campaign is preposterous when the very same filly, one start earlier stuck it to a previously untested, could-be-any-kind Music Note in the Alabama. All this at a distance and with a race setup that favored the latter.

What we got in the stretch at Saratoga was the defining race for the division. One filly, all heart and willing to lay her body down pole after pole, and the other her perfect foil, of limitless talent and pedigree but lacking in true mettle (typical of the stallion and so many of his offspring).

I have to disagree big time on the race setup favoring Music Note in the Alabama.

I thought Little Belle was crawling on an unpressured lead - and was clearly the setup horse in there.

Little Belle (Music Note's stablemate as you know) did get an upressured lead, which, when the running really started gave Proud Spell a little more work to do to establish a clear lead at the top of the stretch.

Music Note got to bide her time and move for the front as she pleased, just as she did in the CCA Oaks. Only this time, instead of rocketing away past the hopeless front markers, she cruised up alongside a game racehorse that she clearly had the better of, got looked in the eye, and gave it up.

I came away with a different impression of that race than you did.

I've never been a believer that trailing the field through soft fractions and having to come around was an advantage.

I didn't think it was a conclusive win at all for PS - and certainly MN's win in their prior meeting was very inconclusive because of real bad trips... where I thought the Alabama was just a race where the bum Little Belle had the dreamiest of trips and PS had a slight tactical advantage on MN.

Does Tony Dutrow do well in NY? I'm not sure. Either way, I have a feeling a lot of Mercedes Stable horses will be abandoning CA for the East Coast in the next few months, if they haven't come already.

That's a fair assesment. It kind of depends on how much talent you think Little Belle has (I would say she has some) and whether or not you think Music Note needs a bit of pace up front to do her best running. Personally, I get the impression that she could pretty much be spotted anywhere early in a race.

Music Note seemed to get more or less the same trip she did in both the prior CCA Oaks and the subsequent Gazelle, races that she demolished. Visually, she looked like she'd run right by Proud Spell, but didn't for whatever reason.

I didn't think Andy was being rude at all, nor was anyone else. I guess I'm so used to having to defend myself that I got my back up. I'd like to think that I would feel the same way if the sires were reversed. I realize the KY Oaks/Alabama double is hard to beat, but Music Note did beat PS and I don't think it's fair to hold PS's bad trip against her and assume that PS would have won. Flute won the KY Oaks and Alabama a few years back and did not get the title. She didn't run that well in finishing 2nd to Exogenous in the Gazelle and then I believe she ran poorly in the Beldame. In this case, Proud Spell has other wins on her resume this year besides those two races, so obviously she'd be a worthy champion, but she just ran poorly in the Cotillion against horses she was supposed to beat handily. Music Note did lose to PS, but she ran well in that race (I was upset by a devastating nose loss immediately after that race and I was disappointed in her. I've come to a different conclusion now).

How exactly did Music Note get a perfect set up in the Alabama ? I thought Castellano rode her terribly that day - the pace was very soft and he kept her 5 or so lengths off the lead. She has a very good turn of foot and should have been kept closer.

I don't know why you think Music Note has no heart or why Indy's offspring in general don't, but I'm not even going to ask you about that.

She gave it up? LOL She didn't spit the bit and collapse - Music Note, untested to this point in her brief career, was just outgamed. She wasn't outclassed and she certainly didn't call it quits. This is like those comments about Bernardini in the BC Classic a few years ago. Finishing 2nd, even a good second, does not mean that you have no heart.

Indian Blessing is starting to look strong for this title.

Wasn't she merely a length away from Proud Spell for most of the backstretch, drafting in behind in the garden spot, much as a sharp-witted cyclist would?

Seriously, though, in terms of pace, I agree that she wasn't the beneficiary. By race setup I meant more that her stablemate, Little Belle, who is at least of listed stake calibur, was sent out to basically tease Proud Spell (perhaps baiting that one into dueling or a premature move to the lead). Meanwhile, Music Note could just stalk Proud Spell (her only real rival) and pounce when necessary. All this with the race contested at 10f, perhaps the biggest advantage any entrant in the race enjoyed.

Certainly she's not outclassed by Proud Spell and maybe, having been untested up to that point, she will be more "battle hardened" next time she locks horns with a comparable rival.

However, replaying the Alabama just now I did kind of overstate how easily she cruised up to Proud Spell at the 1/8th pole. Seems like she might have that other AP Indy flaw we've seen in some of his other horses (most notably AP Adventure). When the real running started around the far turn, Music Note got left about 2 lengths by Proud Spell despite being under a bit of a drive from Castellano. Only once they straightened up did it look like she would inhale Proud Spell. Perhaps that's what took some of the edge off her finish.

She might be, like Easy Goer, a Belmont horse.