"He's a very good horse. We all knew that." I would challenge you to read many of the posts prior to this race about Big Brown and see how few actually say he's a very good horse.

There is no doubt that Big Brown, IEAH, and Dutrow are a "target" for criticism. That being said, I can certainly understand the supporters seeing "any" criticism as jaded and biased -- but I don't think that means that "all" criticism is neccessarily jaded and biased.

As far as being impressed, I was impressed with Big Brown in the Derby -- the way he did what he did, the ease in which he did what he did. Dutrow et al picked the 20, said what they were going to do, went out and did it. Period. Then, of course, will be the arguement that the crop is weak, he didn't beat anything, etc. That's another topic for another time.

Big Brown has accomplished a lot, no doubt. He's a very nice horse, a very good horse. Based upon what we've seen since the beginning of the year, and any jaded or biased opinions aside, I can also very much see someone not being "impressed" with how Big Brown did what he did today. Bad performance, no, certainly not. However, I can certainly the opinion that he didn't "live up to" some of the standards of what this horse allegedly was supposed to be -- a super-star, a very special horse, perhaps on of the greats to come along, etc.

Eric

You read what you want to believe. Everything is relative.

Well said.

Eric

That sums it all up.

It's not that easy. While I have been a huge supporter of Big Brown all year, the fact is, he has risen to the occasion in each race (except one and we still don't know what happened). There just aren't that many horses you can say that about. We aren't even talking Place or Show here. Every one mentioned above were all WINS! Nearly $4 million and more to come depending on how much he earns if he earns in the BCC.

You're right....It sums up what a back-handed compliment is.

The easiest 4 million ever by beating who???

Yeah, he's one of the greatest all time :rolleyes:

keep in mind now HHH, except for one race, he's been there every time. seriously roller is right. how many horses can you say that about?? :D

actually, plenty come to mind for me. but who can blame the guy when the best horse he's seen or heard of is apparently afleet alex?

By beating every horse who faced him. He's not dodged anyone. He is not the greatest of all time, but he is the GREATEST in 2008.

Who comes to mind Danzig????

I first saw Smarty Jones when I started learning horse racing. So I would say he is the best I've ever seen. Don't make fun of me because I am much younger than you. Just because the first horse you rooted for was Aristides, shouldn't spoil my fun.

And that's saying A LOT.

Well winning from the outside posts and blowing everyone away in The FL Derby and Kentucky Derby says quite a bit.

That was pretty good

RollerDoc is on fire!@!

But could Curlin run down Coal Play too? Wait, is that even the name of the horse BB beat in the Haskell?

I for one was impressed. Not by the effort so much. It wasn't that great of a race. In fact, it was barely more than a good race. But for him to be able to win it, while finally facing good horses, was something that I was glad to see. It at least tells me that he was more than just the best horse of the sorriest 3yo crop I've ever seen. The horses he beat today weren't much but they were more than he's been facing. It's like the precocious high schooler that looks so dominant when facing his peers and everyone wants to see how he'll do when facing grown men. Well, BB wasn't facing an NBA all-star team out there today but it was a group of guys that have been decent college players. So that was something. It also enhances his stature for me because he has done it on both surfaces. I always give extra credit to those that are a little more versatile than others. I still don't think he's nearly as great as some others do and I still don't know if I'd say he's even a top five horse of this year but at least now I know he wasn't totally a product of his class.

More like Big Brown's on fire. Seven wins out of 8 tries and throw the miss out until we really know what happened.

None of the horses you put in your top five have faced Big Brown. His resume this year is better than all of your choices. To say he isn't in the top five this year is ludicrous.

To say he's the best horse of this year is criminal. So since none of them have faced him means that he's better than them? How about he's faced none of them either. His resume includes races that none of them were eligible for, save for Proud Spell. You are caught up in the names of the races but those races that Big Brown won were just horrible. HORRIBLE.

i'm impressed that he pulled that one out of his ass, actually spelled it correctly as well.
now if he would just stfu already about big brown.

Have a sense of humor, it's tongue in cheek.

oh...well there ya go roller doc. you've seen smarty jones, what more is there to talk about? maybe they could give you a vote for future hall of fame inductees, you're certainly qualified. such credentials.

I never have claimed to have such credentials. Obviously it is clear in my posts. I'm just trying to participate and learn and speak my opinion. Why would I STFU about Big Brown? Somebody needs to grandstand for him in the face of all the others who discredit his accomplishments. At least you have come around a little on him.

By the way, had I been around in the early 70s and the internet was invented, I'm sure I'd be doing the same thing for Secretariat.

My fault. You clearly have a sense of humor. You are a Jets fan :)

Zing.

FYI....I hope they beat up New England tomorrow.

This happens every year. Each year, the new fans see a Derby winner and think this horse is the best horse to race that year. Let that horse win the Preakness too and the horse is probably God on four legs. Sometimes it doesn't even take winning the Derby. By listening to the fans that have been around the sport only for the last five years, you'd be led to believe that this era of the sport is on par with the 70's. Bless them for they just don't know.

Ummm.....okay.....but HE would have deserved it. See the difference?
When Big Brown starts beating horses as good as Riva Ridge and Sham, or starts winning races by 30+ lengths, or starts setting world records, or makes last-to-first moves in the first turn of a race and wins, etc......few will criticize you for "grandstanding" for him.

I did happen to think it was a good performance by the colt yesterday. He is a versatile and fast horse with legitimate two-turn ability. The sport needs more like him.
But that doesn't make him great.

I wish I could stay up late and witness this stuff live.

Big Brown proved alot of things to me yesterday, I was one that that thought he had alot of questions to answer once he got out of the 3 year old division. This was his toughest challenge to date, one thing was as a 3 yr old he didn't get any significant weight from his elders, and second he held off a good field of older turfers under less than ideal circumstances in his first try out of the 3 yr old division. Not many ordinary horses could do that, without getting emotions involved, I thought it was a A performance. Seeing his action on turf if I were IEAH and Dutrow I would seriously start looking at the BC Mile rather than the Classic. For me if he wins that race impressively he would have answered the question of whether he is a very good horse that rightfully deserves his accolades and if Curlin(who has looked anything but invincible of late) loses whatever race he decides to run in next. HOY would be up for grabs. There's no doubt he looks better on turf if yesterday's race is any indication.

Not to pile on Roller Doc, but didn't Ghostzapper, Medaglia D'Oro, Roses in May, St. Liam, and Pleasantly Perfect run in the same year Smarty Jones became "great"? How is Smarty Jones the best Roller has seen?

you'll have to ask him, i'm out.

i have NO problem with people being fans at all, and i don't want to be seen as attacking one, so i'm thru.

Heck, you guys have "The Amazing Bill Callahan" helping your team out with the o-line. He outta get Favre killed and end his career around.....oh....week #2???

"I'm thru." Who are you? Kent Desourmeux easing his horse at the top of the stretch at Belmont. :)

You aren't attacking. I appreciate your insights agree or disagree. I apologize for the two being ancient references. It was only meant in fun and trying to counter my limited knowledge. You are clearly a wealth of knowledge in this sport, and I do learn from reading your posts. I wish you would stay in this.

Don't drag me into the Jets private hell. I'm a Steelers fan. But in 2008 I like Big Brown even more than Big Ben.

As a Nebraska fan, the Huskers won't be decent again for another 3-4 years because of the Bill Callahan era. However, he was a quality OL coach for quite some time before he got greedy and wanted to take an entire offense with the Raiders. He'll do well with the Jets as long as he stays as a position coach.

the 'ancient' references were funny, i can appreciate a good line regardless of where it's directed.
my real point in all this is that you have a point of view you feel is a legit one-but others have their POV as well--and people who aren't quite as up on big brown as you are probably have a good reason for it.
at any rate, enjoy him while you can-because the brief story running was that iavarone might run brown next year, when in fact it's not true. iavarone said apparently an interviewer took his 'ieah might do anything' comment to mean big brown might run as a four year old. i'm hoping jackson changes his mind about running curlin at santa anita-altho i think it's a slim hope. he was willing to try turf, i wish he'd be willing to try the AWT as well.

what's the general feeling about bo pellini? of course the season is still young...just wondering how it's going so far.

Thank you.. The O-Line has been solid the first week and a half. Now if we could just get an OC that will allow Favre to stretch the field and a pass defense capable of covering tight ends and running backs, we'd be in great shape.