I was up in the 4th floor clubhouse for the Belmont, which could also lead me to reach a different conclusiont on those two events in particular.

Eh, I love visiting L-ville, but dang, is Belmont an awesome place to watch racing.

????Dubai????

I've been saying for years that they should move the BC to a dome.
Would racing indoors be kind of stupid, pointless, and essentially a bunch of crap? Yup.
That's what would make it perfect for the Breeders' Cup.
If I can somehow convince those in power that horses would be somehow safer racing indoors, I predict the Metrodome will be the proud home of the 2011 BC.

Well they dont blow bowl games in Michigan do they? Its not fair but maybe a warm weather place should be mandatory to help the sport. What are the chances november in new york is not freezing cold and or raining?

1988 at Churchill has them all beat...Rain, cold, Classic run in darkness. If it wasn't for Personal Ensign day would have totally sucked.

Am I the only one here that is bothered by the notion that it was promised to NYRA for 2010 and then rescinded for a more favorable financial arrangement for the BC machine. These people piss me off from their phony "Win and you can pay to be in racing" to their worsening destruction of the racing season where every race run between now and the first of the year is neutered because of this astroturf festival in Southern California the next two years.

These "mercenary muppets" will not have the best horses in the world at the Astroturf Festival this year because the poly boycot contingent,which silently grows by the day, will make these races a disgrace. The "Win and Your In" lies,awarding NYRA 2010 and then backing out, forcing two years of Poly on everyone gives us a trifecta of reasons for why the Championships are being ruined by fools who have become reason enough to boycott the event. Good Luck wagering on this event this year. There is more order to a lottery.

Went to the 1994 and 1998 Breeders Cups at Churchill and I remember the weather was pretty nice. I am sure that the seats I bought back then have gone up in price at least fivefold. I still wish I would have cashed in on One Dreamer in the 1994 Distaff. I remember darkness setting in quickly as Concern won the 1994 Classic and Awesome Again won the 1998 Classic (with the wild ride on Swain). Mindy McCready (Roger Clemens' girlfriend) was still in the limelight and sang the National Anthem at the 1998 BC.

Since I work within minutes of Churchill Downs, I couldn't be happier to have the BC return there. With Bobby Petrino gone, there is not much going on in October locally sportswise to compete against the BC.

aint no debate there....horse racing is dead other then a gambling component.

With the state of the sport and industry -- sadly -- you are correct. In hearing Charlie Hayward's comments, of course I agree and say there is credibility in NYRA looking at "potential alternatives" so to speak. If NYRA does not get the BC in 2010, in an ideal world (yes, ideal), hopefully by 2010 VLT's will be up and running in NY and perhaps there will be VLT revenue and benefits realized. Could NYRA get tough and look to put together some sort of "Championship" series or day? Sure they could.

However, and I am not saying it shouldn't be looked at or done, that could be a short-term thinking and short-term benefits. It could also be more divisive, perhaps short-term and long-term. Somewhere, the cannibalization has to stop for there to be change and improvement. We all have seen what the "what's in it for me and only me" thinking has done to our sport and industry.

Perhaps this latest midnight hour, backroom, cloak and dagger deal can be used as a catalyst for change, a paradigm shift, and maybe -- just maybe -- the BC, the NTRA, the Jockey Club, the RCI, and other bodies can for once work together. Sure it's a lot to ask. It's perhaps impossible to vision. But there is often one with a vision.

Eric

Hoss I can't believe that if the handle dropped by a large number that they wouldn't rethink the second year on polytrack. I agree that the BC does nothing for selling the sport because the casual 2 dollar fan couldn't tell you what horses are eligible for the Distaff, but if handle dropped 20% compared to the disaster that was Monmouth you would see these guys back off a second year on Poly faster than the country drop kicked Dukakis/Quayle in '88

There is no way the handle drops significantly this year.

They'd bet on goats in California.

Was it that nobody wanted it, or that a case was made that more could be done with a two-year committment/program vis a vis marketing, promotion, corporate sponsorship, etc.? I don't remember the details and specifics but I thought there were a few tracks in the hunt or at least interested.

Eric

Churchill wined incessantly they couldn't make enough money on it to make it worth their while....honestly, I heard it on the radio on some show JJ Graci used to be on it has to be true!!:D

Very true. The NYRA situation was at the peak and as docicu3 said -- CD took the position that they couldn't make a profit, enough profit, etc. or something along those lines. I too don't remember the specifics or the claims, but that was the essence of it.

Although it's ironic, and very sad, to a certain extent -- the tracks and the BC have somewhat diametrically opposing mindsets.

Eric

i think santa anita got it two years running for promotional and marketing reasons. they think the west coast offers them a big market, and will give them a chance to promote the bc better.
as for churchill whining...monmouth conceded the bc was pretty much a loss for them, with all they put into the track to host, and with the bc taking ALL handle for the day, as per their agreement. i doubt monmouth tries to get the bc again-and churchill has said that it isn't a big moneymaker, certainly not as big for them as it could be due to the loss of handle.

Originally, Churchill's negotiations with the BC centered around a plan that would have the Downs host the Cup 5 out of 7 years. That's what CDI wanted, and voiced lack of sufficient justifiable revenue from single Cup visits as the reason they wanted a multi-year deal. That posture earned them a rebuke from Kentucky State and Louisville City officials for CDI's obvious lack of concern for the economic impact Cup visits have on the Commonwealth. (And don't forget, CDI has been receiving tax breaks from the City of Louisville based on Cup hosting regularity..)

The change of heart from Churchill about hosting a Cup isn't the negative here to my thinking... What is far more disturbing is the BCL's total lack of integrity. They come off in this as stunning hypocrites. Their word as an organization has effectively been rendered meaningless. It will not be a surprise when this incident is later pointed to as the beginning of the end of the Breeders' Cup as an important event.

Though Charlie Hayward didn't commit to it entirely Monday on ATR, if you listen carefully you can hear the underpinnings of the Belmont Fall Championships being restored to their rightful place in the game.

Turf Paradise!

Exactly.....how can you ever care about or trust what they say? "Win and your in my tukus" .......why aren't they hung out to dry with these used car salesman tactics?

QUOTE]

What about all the people who are on the Board of Directors of Churchill and/or who are Breeders Cup Trustees who are ALSO on the Board of Directors at NYRA?

If you want to be critical, that's a fair place to start.

What?

Critical about what, to whom? You made the same inane reference yesterday.. What are you talking about with this stupidity?

First, NYRA has a Board of Trustees. There are 2 Trustees (Lucy Young Hamilton and Dick Santulli) who are among 48 BCL Member/Trustees. What do those 2 people have to do with the BCL reneging on an agreement to hold the 2010 Cup at Belmont?

There are 0 members of the NYRA Board that are on the CDI Board of Directors...

And G. Watts Humphrey is the only BCL Director/Member/Trustee that sits on the CDI Board.

Phipps.

Sorry not to be up to your worthiness.

Inane, stupid. Huh.

So, you don't think the people who sit on the BoD at NYRA who have for-profit BC or CDI interests are discussion-worthy?

Yeah, right.

Oh...you didnt know? Originally it was supposed to be Bush/bentsen and Dukakis/Quayle but the country dropkicked the plan so fast that Bush and Dukakis agreed to a trade (with Bush receiving a chad to be named later).

You said ALL the people that sit on all these boards... ALL... As if there were a myriad.. When in fact there is a total of 4 overlapping among the 18 NYRA Trustees, 14 BCL Directors, 48 BCL Member/Trustees and 12 CDI Directors.

What contributions to BCL business do the 48 Member/Trustees actually have do you suppose? Other than that they get together at an annual meeting. What does Hamilton, Phipps and Santulli (NYRA) being among those 48 BCL Member/Trustees and Humphrey (CDI) being among the 14 BCL Directors have to do with what transpired? What? You drop an inference like there was a coup or kabal... Say what you are hinting at already as opposed to making vieled inferences.

I thought you would like the metaphor of a Boston based former Gov. being slaughtered in an election........ I was searching for an example of a very bad idea and The Duke on a national level came to mind. The whole addition of the spelling bee champ was just an extra poorly placed piece of levity. What was it he spelled incorrectly on TV ....Potatoe? Tomatoe?.....something like that anyway the guys political life went up in smoke over a silly error like using those two names together in this thread

Would the end of Breeders Cup be....
 

Would doing away with Breeders Cup day be a blessing in disguise?
Like Steve said earlier, it would certainly make the Belmont Fall Championship Meet and their signature races more meaningful. Also, we would potentially do away with all the top horses in the country skipping many of the best races during the year pointing to just one race. Sure, we would miss out on one day of the best racing on the planet. But, would that be made up more by our top horses potentially running more often in other races?

Not sure if the top horses would potentially run more often without the Breeders Cup. Probably not given the state of racing today....

PSH

I certainly wouldn't shed a tear if the BC went away, but they're still giving out the money, so unless the entire BC system goes bankrupt, how exactly is Belmont going to draw horses away from the BC?

Dirt I would guess......

Really? People are going to forgo running in a $5,000,000 synthetic race to run in a $1,000,000 dirt race? And I'm pretty sure Churchill still has dirt.

I thought this was Belmont vs Santa Anita...my bad....

Agree with you
 

No one can compete with the money. My point was what if there no longer was a Breeders Cup Day for whatever reason, and thus Belmont and the other tracks no longer had to compete with a Breeders Cup Day? What if the BC went away because no track would host it anymore or they went bankrupt like you suggest or some other reason...

PSH