Well ... I guess that sort of confirms what I surmised.

Lost Like A Fraud "won" an Eclipse Award ... and he's from the Danzig branch of the Northern Dancer line ... and he's got Secretariat, Ribot, and Native Dancer in his pedigree ...

... that's enough to sweet-talk some eager, wealthy investors into buying into a syndicate. It won't be a $100 million dollar syndicate ... but if you can get $5 million or even $3 million ... that's a heckuva lot more than this fraud will ever win in ungraded stakes races at Golden Gate.

Dontcha think?

Yeah ... it'll be "bone chips" and "for the good of the horse" ... any day now.

And Andy Kaufman won 73 wrestling matches in a row.

I guess old Andy was about the best wrestler there ever was.

Hmmm ... I can't think of a horse who did a better job of whipping his opposition ... but ...

... I remember on "Seinfeld" the way Kramer mopped the floor with his karate schooll classmates.

Yup ... I'd say Kramer was the equivalent of Lost Like A Fraud.

Much agreed, horseofcourse. As others have already pointed out, LITF traveled extensively last year, and if other challengers decided not to show up, you can't really blame him. Is he the best sprinter ever? Of course not. At the same time, his record last year was incredibly impressive and he's still managed to win this year despite losing his edge. He's not tops this year, but it's ignorant to knock last year when he clearly was the best sprinter on the block. How many other horses in the BCS even ran that often or traveled that much? It had to take a toll on him sometime, and it happened in the BCS. He had one bad race and 10 good ones. What a "fraud".

Irish,
Well said.
Only one fraud here. I won't mention any name.

Before last year's BC Sprint ... Lost Like A Fraud was being acclaimed by the goo-goos as being the fastest thing since Dr. Fa-ger ... faster even.

His reputation as a "great" horse was equivalent to Andy Kaufman's as a wrestler or Cosmo Kramer as a karate champion ... it was based on easy wins over a dreadful bunch of chumps.

The first time he faced a quality field ... Lost Like A Fraud cracked like an egg going into a soufflé. And he did it again yesterday.

Bottom line ... this horse is just cheap speed who looks good against chumps ... and that's nowhere near comparable to real quality horses who have the occasional bad day.

And as far as that "other" forum's members concerned ... they're the ones who are following me to this one ... not vice versa ... as well they should ... because their lives are dark and bitter without the inspiration and enlightenment I provide to their miserable existences.

What are you talking about? LITF was winning graded stakes races all over the country. You can't accuse a horse of running against nobody when they are running all over the country in graded stakes races.

They don't give out Eclipse awards to frauds. He has a grade 1, multiple grade 2's and his times were pretty impressive. Overhyped, yes, fraud, no. They have been the beneficiary of some weak fields, but primarily because horses avoided him. He is the Kings Bishop, Riva Ridge, Bay Shore and Swale winner. Pretty good in my opinion.

What you say about his racing against whomever showed up last year is absolutely true. He can't be faulted because his rivals were godawful.

But ... on the other hand ... astute observers recognized the weakness of his opposition and wanted to see how he'd do against quality sprinters. And ... even though the BC Sprint field was way, way weaker than in most previous years ... we all saw what happened. And if that wasn't convincing enough ... what happened yesterday brought it all home.

Meanwhile ... our intelligence was being insulted ... and our characters were being assaulted ... by naïve goo-goos who had already declared him to be faster than Pegasus.

Lost In The Fog benefited from being born in a year when there we no good sprinters his age. If he had been born a year later ... we never would have heard of him.

The Eclipse Award for best sprinter ... should go to the horse who was the best sprinter ... not to the horse who had the most wins against the softest opposition.

Last year ... Lost In The Fog wasn't even one of the ten best sprinters ... much less THE best sprinter. The award was a joke ... and the fraud of it all was borne out again yesterday.

In his entire career ... which ended yesterday ... he never beat a quality sprinter ... and never would have ... because he was incapable of doing so.

Homer Pyle

I think you could be a substitute teacher for Danzig.I can't believe 2 people could write in almost the exact same style,but it's possible.

just got back in--was going to reply to the absolutely ridiculous post that started all this, but i don't think i can say anything more than what was already said.

lost in the fog: 14 starts 11 wins (6 of them graded stakes) $978k won. eclipse winning sprinter. oh yeah, that's fraudulent. may i ever own anything that comes close to resembling this 'fraud'.


oh, and such absolute BRAVERY by the original poster of this thread....why, only the TRULY TALENTED would go out on a limb to choose a loser. much more useful than anyone who puts up the WINNER.

you really think we're similar? i like the posters sarcasm, i must admit! but please scuds, don't start another is this poster that poster deal. i barely have the time to post at all, let alone invent a second id.

The only horse who won on the lead all day was the 2 year old maiden in the last race.Ignore bias if you choose to.Many people ignore surface condition in their cap'n.

Yes,the style is quite similiar(or I would never have mentioned it.) Now, did I say you are the same person? No.Only one Annie Oakley type on here.

well thank goodness for that! i enjoy being one of a kind.....i mean, sheesh scuds. just think if you had to deal with two of me!

Well, I can imagine it.I could handle it.My btch been cranky this week(with the other dogs,)and then sure enough she started to bleed about Thursday.
I Like her too much to take away the option of having some of her kids.When my little red male was aggressive,I had him fixed(and regret it.)

Andy Kaufman ... 74 wrestling matches ... 73 wins ... multi-millionaire ... World Intergender Champion ... nothing fraudulent about that either.

Honesty Test ...

Do you believe that Lost In The Fog was the best sprinter in the U.S.A. in 2005 ... that is ... if all the best sprinters ... of any age ... ran against each other at 6f at weight-for-age ... and they all ran their best races ... do you believe that Lost In The Fog would have won?

Watch the "back peddling" folks.
Here comes the justification for the ridiculous thread.
Grasping.
Found to be a fraud.
A legend in his own mind...the wit. He got that 1/2 right.

You and Mermaid write in the exact same style too.

Fraud?
 

BB,

Have to agree with a lot of other posters. What is a fraud and more importantly who are the "goo goo's" you're trying to defend against?

LITF is a very good horse, maybe not a super great horse. How many horses each year achieve the results that he did? I guess less that 1%.

I expect from the number of posts you make that you are a very good handicaper and maybe not a super great handicapper....

...now does that make you a fraud? Maybe the goo goo's can answer that, but why should they?

Naw....
Mark doesn't give graphic descriptions of his dog in heat.
Other than that...

I just posted a response on the "LITF" thread which is also appropriate here. I'll reprint it now ...

"I've posted many times that I am not a 'handicapper' ... I haven't placed a serious bet on a horse since 1967. I don't have the time that's required to follow day-to-day racing to the extent that's needed in order to be a successful bettor ... and I know it ... that's why I don't bet.

But I do have the time to watch and analyze G1 dirt racing ... which is what I've been doing since 1958 ... and I'm knowledgable enough to recognize when a horse doesn't finish his races with conviction against weak fields ... and is thus very vulnerable against strong fields.

Lost In The Fog is not himself a fraud ... he's just a horse ... it's the over-the-top over-evaluation he was given by naïve goo-goos that was ... and is ... fraudulent."

I think that should address your concerns.

BB,

Good answer and makes me ask, with your years of watching. In your opinion, who were the best of the best. Serious question, not trying to pick with you. Who was the best sprinter you've seen, distance horse, turf horse...

Sounds like the making of another thread.

Spyder from SC

He reposted an EXCUSE!
LOSER!
Winners don't need to make excuses for why they lost, cause they won!
This loser knows nothing about horse racing, handicapping, breeding....
on and on.
Spends far too much time looking at rightwing propaganda sites like townhall.com...
and you think he can give you good info about horses??????

LMFAO!!!!!!
AGAIN!

Probably wets his bed if he forgets to put on his "depends".
Listen to this loser and he'll make you one also.
Anyone like Mayan King for their broodmare?

LOL!

Yes ... create another thread ... it could get interesting.

LITF has a serious weakness as a sprinter. He's not terribly fast out of the gate and while he does not technically require that his nose be in front every step of the way, he has not proven that he can run his race if he is very far from the front. He looks tough when he gets 22-second opening quarters, but struggles when faced with 21-and-change against better horses. He's good enough to look like the second coming when he could ship around and run against 3YOs of no particular account, but he's had a little trouble running with the big dogs.

Obviously, the horse himself defrauded no one, but he wasn't, and thus far, isn't, as good as his fans would like to think. He most likely would not have as many fans - nor as glossy of a race record - had he been campaigned in a manner in which he was tested against decent company earlier in his career rather than carefully managed to maximize his race record. It's one of the inherent flaws of paying attention only to the record and not to what it was accomplished against. There were many better sprinters that ran in the US in 2005, but since none of them had the luxury of running against such modest competition for most of the year, their records don't look nearly as good on paper.

I fought this battle last fall and don't expect that anyone who still thinks LITF is all that is going to change their mind reading this now, but I am compelled to speak up.

Your compulsion is duly noted ... and your insight is duly appreciated.

P.S. Are you the real Phalaris ... or is Pedigree Ann the real Phalaris?

I'm the real Phalaris - have been since the early 1990s. I am the Phalaris from the Derby list, the Phalaris from other racing forums, etc.

I've been distracted the last couple months because we recently moved out of state. I haven't had time to be active on any of the lists or forums lately.

Fraud is strong, but he's never beat older horses unless you want to include the crippled Kelly's Landing in the mix.

Why would LITF run from far off the pace? He has blazing speed. If a sprinter has blazing speed and always go to the lead or is just off the pace, why would he have to prove that he could run his race from well off the pace? There have been plenty of great sprinters that were always near or on the lead. If you look at LITF's past performanes, he is never further back than a length. He has blazing speed. He has gone :43 and change and still won. LITF is a very versatile horse. I think he could come from 4-5 lengths back if he wanted to, but there would never be a reason for him to be that far back.
The reason LITF was so far back yesterday was because he didn't have it yesterday. Even if you'e right and LITF is not that good of a horse, if he would have been right yesterday he would have at least showed some speed. Even if he was overmatched and was going to get soundly defeated yesterday, he still would have showed some speed before quitting. The horse had absolutely nothing yesterday. That's why he showed no speed. Even in the Breeder's Cup against the best sprinters, LITF was within a length and even took the lead at the quarter pole. I don't think LITF even ran his best in the BC Sprint. He simply had too many races. He was knocked out when he got to the BC Sprint.
It's hard to say exactly how good LITF is. There weren't any great sprinters around last year. I think he was certainly the best sprinter last year. I don't know how he would have done against some of the really good sprinters of the last few years. If LITF was at 100% and would have run in the 2004 BC Sprint, I doubt he would have beaten Speighstown that day.

Uh-huh ... uh-huh ... well ... if you're the "real" Phalaris ...

... please state your sex ... and provide the initials of the publication you once were associated with.

By these shall we know ye.

Ummm, Rupe ... you kind of missed the point. Phalaris wasn't saying that Lost In The Fog should run from off the pace ... but that he can't stay with the pace when he's up against quality sprinters.

And because he can't stay with the pace ... he can't win ... because he has no ability to come from off the pace.

Do you see the distinction? Good ... I'm glad you do.

You must also remember it was the media hyping Fog last year more than forum members. Most members want to see him succeed, but it was Jeanine Edwards, Kenny Mayne, & the ESPN crew following him around the country - interviewing his connections every chance they got and showing all of his races nationally. I dont think anybody here has called this horse the "next Dr. Fager" but he is a very good horse. How many horses campaign all spring/summer in Florida, New York, and California covering tens of thousands of miles and dont lose? Not many, right? The horse looked like $hit for the BC Sprint last year out of the detention barn and he didnt fire. I was at the OTB that day and as soon as they showed him in the post parade the "regulars" I was sitting near knew he had nothing. He didnt. If you dont want to believe what Gilchrist said about the quarter crack, thats fine. You are entitled to your opinion but if memory serves this horse has had a history of them dating to last year. No surprise that the injury flared up and why did Gilchrist run? Either a) he thought the injury was past even though it wasnt or b) he knew the public would go nuts if they scratched. If the horse is so fradulent, then why did Calder assign him such a high weight? This horse is no fraud - every horse has its on/off days. Hell, future BCC winner and HOY Saint Liam was 6th in the Big Cap with no excuse at all.

He is a different horse this year. I dont care what kind of fields the horse ran against last year, he had as good a motion as a sprinter as I have seen. Again, on this board, you are only as good as your last race. I cannot completely toss a horse as visually impressive as LITF till his connections clearly state he is done, he is not the same horse, and he never will be. He was just too damn good to toss.

I remember when everyone gave up on Congaree when his 4 year old year started out poorly. I believe a really bad race at 4 at lone star and calls for his retirement started. And he turned out to be a pleasure to watch. He gave us some fantastic efforts.

Not saying will happen the same way with LITF. I just have a habit of not giving up on horses I know have shown brilliance in the past after a bad race.
No excuses. Im just saying this horse was very very good. Im not done.

The problem with LITF is that he isn't all that blazing fast. He has encountered 21-and-change opening quarters against open company twice and lost both times. If you're a sprinter who can't handle 21-and-change opening quarters in against horses who can, you'd best be able to make up some ground. Thus far, LITF's losses coincide with occasions in which he has gotten outrun from the gate; he has yet to win a race when he had more than one horse in front of him early.

I don't understand the big disconnect with this horse. He never even saw anything resembling high-caliber sprinters until BC day. That he was able to waltz - usually in 22/44-45 - against patsies all year was somehow assumed to be fully transferable to real sprinting and it simply wasn't. He is 1 for 4 against half-decent open-company sprinters - the 1 coming on the occasion when he was able to get a 45-second half - and that looks to me like the true bill.

I was so dissapointed! Did you notice her reluctance to change leads? Hope nothing is wrong, and she just had an off day.

Actually Bold, we don't give a **** what you do over here. We're mostly just glad you're gone. ;)