I thought that this board was for people who were fans of racing. You seem to have such disdain for everyone involved in the business. Why are you here?

I love racing I have NO disdain for racing at all. But come on with the poor owners routine. There is no such thing. If you can afford a race horse you can afford alot. The NYRA is a joke but I absolutely LOVE racing and horses.

I'll take your word for it on your love of racing. I guess I'm coming from the viewpoint that NY, through its high parimutuel taxes and parisitic OTBs, is doing its best to try to prevent racing (forget about NYRA) from competing on a level playing field with other gambling enterprises (compare horse racing's takeout to the house's advantage at a casino), so I'm tired of the "we poor taxpayers are constantly bailing NYRA out" routine recently advanced by members of the NYS Senate.

Let's put it this way. Up here in Malta, the state has pledged over $1 billion dollars to build a plant that may - and I emphasize MAY - allow a Texas company to employ a couple of hundred workers. Meanwhile, the politicians seem hell-bent on playing games with a horse racing industry that employs over 40,000 New Yorkers. Even assuming that we don't fix the broken model (which everyone at the earliest stages of the franchise process agreed was broken), and the track operator needs a $20 million per year subsidy to ensure that those persons dependent on the industry remain in their jobs, that's far less than the state already takes out of the game, so I fail to see how the taxpayers are harmed in all this. And let's keep in mind that the numbers were talking about do not account at all for the income taxes that those working in the horse industry pay into the state coffers.

Does anyone hear that giant SUCKING sound ? That's the sound of the money the for profits would suck out of NY racing and into their own accounts out of state. Forget money for increased purses, increased profits are all that matters to robber barons.

lol. Fidel Castro should run NYRA?

:D Oh no, only those that can exploit an industry should operate one right. Just like the industrial revolution where kids worked and families suffered. Now that was capitalism at it's finest !

But I agree the NYRA must have some accountability. Not a blank check for 30 years.

It' OK, admitting it is the first step.

There is a daily charge for stalls. I would have to check my last bill but it was something like $5oo for the 18 stalls i had for the saratoga meet..

Not NYRA stalls, during the Saratoga meet.

Listen you 2 simpletons. If you are going to argue your points at least get the story straight. NYRA declared Bankruptcy for 2 reasons. #1 is because under the current racing model they get to KEEP NO MONEY!!! Dont you understand that they are not allowed to keep any of the money they rightfully earned from their cut of the handle. It after expenses it all goes to the state. Obviously the laws which were written in a different era are no longer reasonable but fools keep saying "NYRA is broke!!!"
Reason #2 was to go in front of a federal judge who would almost certainly rule that NYRA is the rightful owner of the land which forces the Govenors hand. If he does not help them and the courts rule in NYRA's favor concerning the land, then there is no awarding of anything and NYRA can sell off land, pay off creditors and the state is loses the biggest battle of all, the land ownership deal.

As for NYRA and the HK jockey club being in competition....are you serious?

Since when is horse racing supposed to be a capitalist model like McDonalds ? Or even the NFL? (lotsa cometition there). Folks, either the profits go back to NYS and a LARGE chunk to horsemen or the profits go out of state never to be seen again. I can hear the sucking sound allready. Right on Cannon Shell.

Pretty sure NYRA charges for the Saratoga stalls once the meet is over, but not during it. Churchill does it too from around July to September 15, I think.

Calling people simpletons and saying neighborhoods are dumps is not something a guy winning 13% of his races and maybe $150K in purses for an entire year should be doing. Are you jockeying for a job with NYRA once the training career is over, which might be pretty soon? LOL

So you want to say NYRA "rightfully earned" money but then you want them to be a non-profit? Hilarious. Why not just include $100 steak dinners everynight and pay the board members shipping costs of their horses. This way they will insure they are a non-profit. Wait, they already do that. LOL

Please explain to me what NYRA does with the million it gets when it sells the land? No land=No racing=no NYRA. NYRA CAN'T EXIST WITHOUT RACING. Is that too difficult for you to understand or do you have to be a simpleton like us to get it?

You want no accountability for NYRA. I guess you want no accountability from racehorse trainers to their owners too. Although you seem to already have that. LOL

[quote=Benevolus]Calling people simpletons and saying neighborhoods are dumps is not something a guy winning 13% of his races and maybe $150K in purses for an entire year should be doing. Are you jockeying for a job with NYRA once the training career is over, which might be pretty soon? LOL

Spoken like the jerk that you are

Only a fool would take what NY politicians say at face value like you seem to do. I find it amusing that you attempt to denigrate me professionally at every chance yet are insulted when I call you what you are.

The board members got their horses shipped for free because everyone got free shipping on the NYRA shuttle. If you ship from Aqu to Belmont or vice versa to run in a race you went on the NYRA shuttle which was for everyone. It is not a unique situation as Calder to Gulfstream and Churchill to Arlington and Churchill to Keeneland have similar set ups. If you are stupid enough to think that any of the board members are serving to get free stall rent, shuttle service or $100 steak dinners you are a simpleton.

You want NYRA to "clean up the community" and renovate but how are they supposed to do that if the state cleans them out at every chance.

I'm not sure why YOU are so personally against NYRA but if they are so bad then who do you propose run the tracks in NY?

bidders on the casino side
 

Now here's the link for the bidders on the casino side. Note that Excelsior and Empire did not even submit any interest in running the casinos...
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41368

"earth to Joe, earth to Joe...come in please...ummm, while you were gone NYRA has been awarded the racing franchise...now try to figure out how the casino side will be run...earth to Joe...are you there ?"

why not? what has one part of your sentence got to do with the other?
i agree with viscount, you are a jerk.

jerk.

Yeah, I'm winning at a 0% clip but doesn't mean until he can come up with a good alternative to the NYRA and is just senselessly bashing them I can't say he's a simpleton.

and i don't even CARRY a purse, certainly haven't won one.

We get charged daily for stall rent year round, and not just the host meet or off meet. I was going over my my NYRA statements this afternoon. Great tax right off for me though...

If you are in a NYRA stall at SAR, during the meet you should not be paying rent. If you are there before or after then you will get a bill. If you were in a non-NYRA stall (say over on Gridley St) and got a bil for the 6 week meet, you are paying the owner of the stalls, not NYRA.

If you were in a NYRA stall for the 6 weeks and got a bill, contest it.

And, furthermore, the rent charged ( $15 a day I believe ) for use of the Oklahoma during the " off-season " is passed along to owners. Perhaps this is less relevant to OutoftheBox because he is a private trainer....thus his owner foots all the bills.

So true. Sounds like a dolt to me.

Most hilarious post of the day. Thanks for the laugh fm.

Everytime this discussion, or arguement takes place -- every single time -- I think it's crystal clear as to who understands the actual and substanative issues; and who is more oriented toward "the noise" -- the propaganda, and whatever else you want to call it. Anyone who comes from a place of getting rid of NYRA because they have failed, and bringing in someone who can build a successful business model, clearly doesn't understand anything about the economic and political environment of not only NY racing, but the entire industry. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, and in saying that I mean no offense to anyone and it's not meant to be riduculing in any way. However, it does point out that it is extremely difficult to have an intelligent, meaningful conversation when people are on two completely different planes of knowledge.

NYRA declaring bankruptcy is not a measure of their financial prowess or lack thereof. It's not cause and effect. It was, in part, very simply a strategic move and I think some people are upset not that NYRA did it, but more so that it actually worked. Think about that. The bankruptcy is however very and extermely indicative of the current political and legislative landscape that any franchise operator would have to operate under. It was not NYRA's business model that was broken. Yes, the propaganda will talk about expense accounts, NY Bred races, the taxpayers -- and while I don't mean to trivialize any issues, those are not the real issues. The critics and the people who are absent of facts and understanding must make it those items the issues. NYRA's business model -- any business model, in the current environment, would fail.

How many of these bidders were considering the franchise before the VLT legislation was passed? How many bidders were throwing their hat in the ring before the state legislature agreed to change the laws that make it impossible for anyone to operate the tracks in a prudent, dilligent and "profitable" form and fashion? For the first time, the state (or at least part of it, LOL) is actually looking to work with the various components of the industry and be part of the solution.

This is not about NYRA, although some people tend to make so. This entire situation is not a NYRA issue -- it's an industry issue. It's about archaic laws that were once feasible. However, the world has changed, and NY Racing -- not just NYRA -- has been dying a slow death. Like an old car that gets real old real fast, the death has been accelerated. NYRA has made mistakes, like CD, Magna, Woodbine, Delaware North, Empire, Excelsior, Capital Play, and so on. Everyone on the rosters have made mistakes -- just like all of us.

I think people need to set aside the sour grapes, animosity, hostility, and everything else -- and truly understand the issues and look to what is best for the sport and the industry.

Eric

As usual, Eric cuts through the BS, and posts the definitive response.

Mr Eric that was a well organized, cogent, well thought out post........................OVER RULED

You are as Bill Parcells once said what your record is and NYRA is poor.

Wow imagine you and yours backing your friends at NYRA.. Obviously NYRA mgt. has either directly or indirectly received advise from a team of OBJECTIVE friends and family. Why wouldn't you all just raise your hands and tell the world that NYRA's solutions for racing are a based on advised broughtforth by Crist's friends and family team.

Not suggesting that the advice or direction that you and yours are giving NYRA is bad,or that Crist's boys aren't right on many accounts, but at least rep the obvious. Can it be anymore transparent that Crist is NYRA right hand man behind the scenes? Geez you can't make this crap up. We have Eric's woe is me argument(although wonderfully written) The Sheriff(Crist) and the Deputy(you) all singing NYRA party line.

ELA should send in his resume for White House Press Secretary. Who knows...George Bush could become President for life with the help of that brilliant wordsmith.

Freddy, you hate NYRA because they didn't buy your T-Shirts. It's as simple as that.

What is funny, however, is you suggesting someone else is not being up front. My associations are well known.

ror!

Please I am much more swallow then that, you give me far too much credit. BTW the last show was clearly the best yet.

You can not run a business as a business without accountablity.. Dinny can do what ever the F he wants with the Phipp's foundation(a client to be fair) its his fn money.. He can't with Bessemer since it isn't all his. One is a NON Profit one isn't.

1) NYRA they don't earn they are a NON profit DING DONG. Hence of course they don't keep money(although in the past they just stole it).. The whole point of a Non Profit is not to earn but to distribute..You can't make this crap up?

2) BTW Cannon Ball at best it was 50/50 that a judge may have ruled NYRA was the owner of the land.. And why the F to the taxpayers have to bank role NYRA's potentially flawed quest? So now they can spend as much as they want to fight any crusade they choose says who Wilke Farr and Gallagher?

3) Becareful who you call a simpleton especially when you don't know who you are talking to. I may be nuts but I am far from stupid. Maybe my man BENE has a point perhaps you could focus a bit more on what you haven't been as successful as others have been. I may sell pens and tees but at least I sell a fn lot of them and help 200 hard working people earn a living.

To me, people are down on NYRA because there's nothing tremendously different about the how they operate vs a couple years ago when all the **** went down.

In the end, two mutel clerks were found guilty. One paid $5,000 in restitution and the other got 2-3 years probation.

In the meantime, Barry Schwartz, who was CEO of NYRA when a contract worth $750,000 was no-bid awarded to his daughter and son-in-law was allowed to just walk away instead of being indicted for fraud.

$750,000/$5000 = 150. Schwartz's "indiscretion" was 150 times, in dollars, worse than the mutuel clerk's. Yet he was able to retreat to his 600 acre farm and maintain his place in the ownership and breeding industry in NY.

When you have this kind of blatant and unpunished malfeasance occur at the top of a non-profit organization, people are going to want change. Supporters of NYRA can point to all the staff and oversight changes made since but with this kind of recent history as well as poor financial results, nobody can be surprised that people are distrustful and want change.

Look that makes way too much sense Studly obviously you are just pissed at NYRA because they dont buy your sperm..lol

The way it works is you tell everyone those were bad people who did bad things but you now have good people who do good things and all is forgiven because you came to jesus and confessed your past sins. Imagine a couple of Jewish boys are steering the ship from the second deck while the capt. smiles and perks them out. All because they lost their front man to HK..

I kind of like the new plan.. But the whole thing on an auction block and hawk it like livestock. What's so special about horse racing anyway and why do we need a bunch of care takers.

It's a clusterf@#k there at NYRA/NY State for sure. And it's probably not going to change. Folks can bluster about things like Magna and CDI falling off the screen but, to me, when Kirkorian (MGM) loses interest that means there's probably no money to be made or at least not fast enough to justify the expense.

As far as Nader leaving, that's always an issue with non-profits... trying to compete for good people. He was there a long time, 10+ years I believe.

Black beard cares about NYRA because he makes his living at those tracks and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Racing has had a storied tradition in NY and it will evolve with or without NYRA.

Fellas, the NYRA has been awarded the horse racing part of the franchise. What is now needed is resolution of the casino side of it.

Even critics of NYRA, like me, have no problem with them being awarded the franchise. The issue is accountability. Nobody is worthy of a 30 yr franchise, but a group that has a "shaky" history really isn't worthy.

If the problem is with OTB's then they need to resolve it. I just wonder why if the setup is so bad, why is NYRA fighting so hard for something that is impossible to break even with. Makes ZERO sense. Somebody is making money off the current situation and I suspect that somebody(ies) is connected to NYRA somehow.