Best since Bid = Ghostzapper

I'll have to agree with many above...the case can certainly be made for the best in the last 25 years, but that late 70's run with Slew, Affirmed, and Bid would all rate higher on my list.

Rankings like this are by nature a little arbitrary so I usually don't like to say something like "You are wrong" in a discussion like this. But I will make an exception in this case. You are wrong.
I would like for you to explain to me how horses like Affirmed, Spectacular Bid, Sunday Silence, etc. etc. etc. are "not even close" to being as good as the two you mentioned. I mean I know those three aren't in the same league as the likes of Birdstone and Giacomo, but they were pretty good.

Jeez. Cigar was a very nice horse, but the best in the last 30 years? And better than Skippy? I don't think so.

How many times did Cigar and Skippy face off? Who won?

Oh it was certainly a joke. The question is, was it an intentional or unintentional joke?
That I can't answer.

[quote=Cigar is certainly not in the top five horses to have raced in the last thirty years.[/QUOTE]

Not that I put a lot of stock in the rankings, but Bloodhorse did rank Cigar as the 18th best horse of the 20th Century...

It was a joke... If I was inept enough to believe what I posted, Id kill myself.

.......in 1988 alysheba would have bitch slapped him.....hard.

Oh....well in that case....your dry sense of humor is appreciated.

Speakiing of Skip Away, his Florida Derby saddle cloth is on eBay

$3500??? holy smokes

Speaking of Skip Away, the result of probably the best mare he was ever booked to (Lady's Secret) finally broke his maiden at 5, after never hitting the board in 7 previous tries, in the 8th at Del Mar. Unfortunately, despite being among the top 5 fillies of all time she was never much of a producer. Only 3 of her offspring have ever even won a race in the US.

much the same could be said about winning colors and open mind.

is there any connection between the 3?

hmmmmm....;)

I have no idea, other than several of their offspring have been sent to Japan. What am I missing?

I know you can figure out there connection!



(are we still doing Sergio's Sunday night because I'll make reservations)

they were all sired by horses more known for turf!! sorta?

Let me talk to the one in charge!
I'm stumped! :confused:

Well, Caro for sure (Cozzene, With Approval, Crystal Palace, etc.) the others? I never thought of Sec or Deputy Minister as turf sires.

Yes... Sightseek keyed me in. I'm so dumb.

D. WAYNE LUKAS was the trainer of all three.

Gee.. I wonder if all the steroids that he gave them could of had something to do with it....:D

I don't think he is "hooked"..Personally I think he just like to being a world class Dumb Ass...lol

Digging deeper, because I've got nothing better to do, here's Lukas' champion fillies results as producers:

Landaluce: (none, died at 2)
Althea: nothing of note. Best was Aurora- listed SW
Life's Magic: nothing of note. Best is Simon Pure- an allowance winner
Family Style: 1 START out of 5 foals
Lady's Secret: nothing of note, only 3 US winners
North Sider: nothing of note, best was 2-15 Ruby My Dear
Sacahuista: best was Ekraar, who won an Italian G1
Open Mind: 2 foals, a combined 4-48
Winning Colors: nothing of note in the US
Flanders: Surfside, who was outstanding, and that's about it
Golden Attraction: nothing of note, 5 to start, 4 winners, but no stakes winners
Serena's Song: Grand Reward, Sophisticat, Harlington, and Serena's Tune all won graded stakes

So other than Serena's Song, not much out of an incredibly good group of fillies.

Funny that those three are the ones u mentioned. Barbaro never ran past the second week in May. Alex never ran past the first week in June. Smarty Jones was another very popular one and he also never ran past the first week in June. The sport can't take advantage of any groundswell because the swell flattens out before it can mount to anything. There won't be any major network TV deals either. Look how promising the Travers looked after the Belmont. Imagine that u are a network exec and u are promoting the Travers as a matchup of the three TC winners plus Any Given Saturday. Imagine how u would have felt when they ran the race with only one of the four. Back in the day, when horses actually raced, u could do something like that. Not in today's game. More often than not, u will end up looking like a fool for promoting a horse that doesn't show up.

Perfect line of questioning in a thread about Cigar... Again, love Cigar, but to think he is naturally sterile is almost as crazy as saying he's not one of the best horses in the last 25 years...

I've always felt that the most successful race mares don't become good producers because of all the things that are pumped into their systems to get them to the top racing levels. I think this list just goes to show how special a filly Serena's Song really was. Same for Personal Ensign.

If Cigar is the best horse of the last 30 years, I must have been watching a different sport than thoroughbred horse racing. Most accomplished? That I could go with. But best? Not even close. In no order and off the top of my head, who'd I'd place ahead of him:

Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Java Gold, Alysheba, Lost Code, King Glorious, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Holy Bull, Gentlemen, Lammtarra, Candy Ride, Ghostzapper, Point Given, Smarty Jones, Discreet Cat, Bernardini, Giant's Causeway

Agree 100% on both points.

Nothing against Cigar, who was a true champion and brought his A game every time, but the group you offer would blow his doors off.

You didn't even include those such as Tiznow, Skip Away, Awesome Again...

Smarty Jones would have beaten Cigar at any distance on any track.

Where Cigar gains stature is in the fact that he brought it time after time. He traveled. He carried some weight. He was ultra-consistent and if u are to ask me would I take him over some of the other horses I mentioned, I would based on those factors alone. I'd rather have a horse that will give me a 115 race every time over one that is just as capable of giving me a 125 as he is a 105. So for an extended period of sustained top level racing, Cigar moves way up the list. But if u are to take all of the horses and take their best two or three races and say which horses had the most ability, Cigar is much further down the list than his list of accomplishments would suggest.

Invasor will mow all of them down.

i think that's the first horse mentioned in this entire thread that cigar would actually beat.

Don't forget... Afleet Alex was mentioned...

Good point.

True concern, however I'd guess the lack of network interest in horse racing is based more upon the terrible ratings horse racing routinely receives no matter the actual content (can't sell ad time).

I always get excited when horse racing has a David Beckham celebrity (Cigar, Funny Cide, Smarty Jones) to fill some seats and pique interest, even if those seats are filled with butts that wouldn't recognize a filly from a colt, and won't be there mid-winter at Aqueduct. You have to start somewhere when making new fans.

But when the sport gets one of those PR gifts (Street Sense, Borel, and Nafzger could have been a great one, spanning a years time!), horse racing pretty much ignores everyone not already within the loop.

Dwayne

I was a Bull fan so have no great love for Cigar, but do respect what he did. How can you place horses like Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Discreet Cat, and Giant's Causeway ahead of Cigar? None of them ran more than 10 races in their careers. Cigar had more than that many G1 wins.

OH DON'T MAKE ME BEYOTCH SLAP YOU. DON'T YOU DISS ON MY GIRL WINNING COLORS. :mad: