I do blame the way the VLT's are set up for the lack of promotion of RACING at RACETRACKS.

I cannot speak to issues of OTB's and their political decisions. I am so low on the employment food chain that it's fair to say that I have absolutely NOTHING to do with decision making.

TheIman
 

Thanks, good info. I guess one could say the increased purses due to slots led to better racing which in turn led to more simulcast revenue. As far as on track increases, I wonder how much of the increased on-track handle was directly due to money the track gave away to slot players. Don't forget, $100 given away can easily be rolled over into $300-$500 through the windows. Regardless, it is great to see that not only are they trying to create players from their slot customers, but that at least in some ways they are having success.

By the way, Jesus Christ did not write the article, Steve CRIST did. However, I can understand how someone could confuse him with another figure that at least some people refer to as the " savior ".

with satin bow ties, and that stupid poof on top of their hat?! lol

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

The one and only time I walked through the Racino was the first August it was open. I was with a friend of mine who had a vested interest in seeing how a racetrack ran a casino. We walked through the Racino and the most striking thing, to me at least, was that it was extraordinarily difficult to figure out how to exit the slot parlor into the racetrack. He basically explained to me that it is the design of these places NOT to let you find the racetrack.

Pretty sad.

Agree with most of what you are saying but I think you are underrating the potential those enthusiast crowds can have. Give them a reason to follow the sport on days they aren't at the track and for many of them the wagering will continue to increase. Then things like your Siro's Seminar and the Youbet show become important catalysts to increase their wagering. By no means am I saying the jockeys are what is going to give them a reason to follow the sport. All I was saying is that there is absolutely no way of promoting the jockeys when they are wearing a different costume every race making it difficult for the common fan to differentiate between them. So as long as that is the case any efforts to promote the jockeys are a waste of time and resources.

oops about the Christ and Crist booboo. I edited it. Must have been the long hair similarities?

Holland,

I live in Arizona, but plan on drafting a letter to some of those key legislators in NY over this. While the tracks are in New York, they need to hear from the rest of the world who bet the races, and therefore contribute to NY Racing.

I spend a great deal of time keeping up with legislative issues, and this is one that is the hottest right now...

ALostTexan

I can agree with all that. My biggest problem is that when racetracks find a way to lure people to the track they do nothing to even attempt to educate them about the game. Someone may come to the track to see Bernardini or a certain rider but the best way to get them to come back is to help them cash a bet or two. That's what hooks 'em.

For every Brad Thomas, who is beyond excellent, there are five Jan Rushtons.

I agree. I think the horses are definitely cabable of getting people in the door (eg. Smarty Jones) way more than a jockey ever will, but the product has to be built around both being friendly and informative to the people they draw in so the noise doesn't end when the star that brought them in retires. From being fairly new to the experience of wagering, one thing that I think could drastically help are not only the seminars on handicapping the actual races but an understanding of designing your bets and using the computer to make them. Windows aren't very friendly IMO.

I think TVG is on the right track. They are teaching people how to bet pick 4's and 6's on a budget of $50 for pick 4's and $120 for pick 6's. This method is the fast track to success and should bring thousands, if not millions of new fans to the game.

jockey trading cards
nascar esk patches on the jocks
and saddle towels
MORE HANDICAP RACES
stripper pole in the winners circle...

the real way to bring gamblers to horse raceing is.........................
TREATING THEM LIKE A CASINO PLAYER..REAL COMPS REAL HOSTS....NO OTHER WAY WILL WORK..

Jockeys cant have their own silks. They are EMPLOYEES remember?

Plus as great as some riders are their skills are not readily apparent like an athlete in another sport. What makes the top jockeys that, is a great sense of timing, patience, and hands. All of which are hard to quantify or identify.

The truth is that promoting jockeys or trainers or any other persons wont work, because even novices understand that the horses talent is what is important and readily apparent.

Are they employees or independent contractors?

I had a conversation with a few other trainers this morning about a variety of topics including slots and the pros and cons. We are very worried as a group about what is going to happen once the tracks start raking in huge profits from the slots despite the raise of purses. I personally feel that the tracks will even be more independent and instead of coming together to solve some of the industrywide problems they will just try to throw money at them. Tracks in general have treated horsemen as a necessary evil when we were their only product so you can understand how we feel we will be viewed as we are marginalized. However if casinos are allowed in our markets without us being involved, it would surely lead to the rapid demise of the tracks. Being a gambling venture, we need to compete on the same level as the casinos. I personally have no problem with slots players not playing the races as long as we are seeing a portion of their revenue. Instead of going after slots players we should go after people who have not yet become gamblers and stress the positives of betting on our sport. Make them horseplayers before they become slot players or poker players. I would say the typical slot player is not smart or lucrative enough to become a sucessful horse player any way.

I think that horseracing in general has done a terrible job with the TV networks. We should give all our big races to ESPN when the contracts expire. Let them promote the sport year round and stop whining about overruns from little league baseball and such. Remember before last year ESPN was covering the BC preps in a half assed manner because another network covered it. If we were to give them the Triple Crown and BC I am sure they would do a much better job of televising the preps. Make ESPN and their family of networks the horse racing channel. ESPN gives you great demographics and really can help "make" a sport. Look at Poker. The current TC situation is a sad joke. The 1st 2 races on one network and the Belmont on another. I know one thing, if ESPN had the Derby we would have gotten a whole lot more coverage of races like the FL Derby and AR Derby. Maybe I'm wrong but as the networks fade ESPN will only get bigger.

I also think ESPN can help us in another area where racing is missing out badly. That is promoting the sport to the increasing hispanic population. There are so many prominent hispanics that are key players in our sport why are we not actively promoting to these people? If you watch ESPN sportscenter in the morning you see them promoting ESPN desportes every day. Racing could be a natural fit for this portion of the network which is looking hard for content.

But of course there are great ideas like the jockey cam and free t-shirts.

I agree this helps but I think it helps the casual player who plays maybe a couple of times month or so and again on major race days. The new player or the ones who play on TC days(mostly just the derby) have no clue what multi-race wagering or even exotics are. They play $2W on their favorite number or a familiar name, most newbies probably don't bring $50 to the track. As in all aspects of education, a foundation needs to be layed and fundamentals must be practiced & reinforced. I think the players that benefit most from BTW, Crist, Beyer etc. are ones that have a good foundation and can derive their own opinions from the knowledge of the pro cappers. The two-a-years and newbie bettors probably will not benefit from these guys(& gals) as much or at all by not knowing the basics of horseracing. Quite possibly the tracks and OTB's could encourage some form of education...Not handicapping seminars, just plain old fashioned schooling at the track or before Nick & Tom give a Track Fact Salute on the weekends.

Depends on if they are writing checks or depositing them.

Horseman organizations have long opposed takeout reductions...which is absolutely essential.....and the draconian takeout is really the main reason why betting on horses is considered a suckers game by so many....and so tremendously few professional horseplayers exist.

I think if horseman really want to see what you say happen...they ought not be there to oppose takeout reductions...in fact, they should lobby for them.

From an economical standpoint---I think takeout reductions will help everyone.

So were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

Uh last time I looked they wore the uniforms of their "teams" not of thier own, no?

When my parents moved to Atlanta in the late 1970s, they had the same promotion going at their local supermarket, probably the exact same races, since they took place at Tropical Park, which was torn down in 1971 or 72.

My mistake.

Edabee!!



Great seeing you posting again,ma'am.

I agree with you on these points and you have to understand that much of the time the horsemans organizations are run not by the will of the horsemen but by the decree of those elected. I'm sure that a large majority of NY horsemen are hoping NYRA wins the NY deal despite the backing of Empire by their leaders. Plus a lot of horsemen are really dumb.

I have to say sitting out back in Saratoga you get to see & hear where the $$ goes in a race. It's was and always is, "What # is Bailey on?"...Which is the Pletcher horse?"...Johnny V. & Pletcher; can't touch'em."...Another Paraneck & Pedersen...just kidding!!!
Yes, they have many of the best horses and we love to beat them, but Joe Public knows and recognizes names and faces and will continue bet them more and more. Which name do you know? Pletcher or Parisella? Bailey or Arroyo?
Everything is marketable, finding out how to market it is the difficult part.
Lots love the horse, but it can't run by itself...it needs a team behind it and that team is manmade. Maybe marketed together as a team would be a place to start.

I know this first hand.

Both of my parents trained race horses at one time.....

Those people you hear are already there. The public will not come to watch Todd Pletcher train or John Velasquez ride. They come to bet horses and if they dont bet then they really are not going to be worth very much to the game in the long run anyway. I have stressed this in many posts before. Market the sport as a betting vechicle not as a sport. Trainers and owners and jockeys are not marketable in any meaningful manner. Horses careers are fleeting. The fact that you can walk into a track and figure out how to make 6 or 7 figure scores are what will bring people and keep them coming back.

I agree on this but I still think you need to have the characters to throw it in the faces of people. If you knew nothing of Hooters, would you rather go to see what it's about with an owl on the billboard or a hot blonde with her %^%&%$ popping out...get what I'm saying?:) The characters would include the horses, jocks, trainers.

Yes, but the fact that the Pick Six is a $2 minimum prevents a lot of people like myself from being able to take a reasonable shot at that 6 or 7 figure score. As long as that is the case it will make it a lot more difficult to promote the game to new gamblers on the basis of the big score. You really need to get comfortable making other bets and already be hooked on the game before you can venture into the Pick Six pool.

The bottom line is getting more people interested in horse racing, more people coming to the races, and more people betting on the races.

This is all about marketing as well as making the product better, period.

If you can't get the people to the races, we need to bring the races to the people. Andy had a great idea about making the pick six available where you buy lottery tickets. Great idea. Why not add the suspence of watching an afternoon of races instead of those stupid ping pong balls.

Another idea as I mentioned earlier is the old grocery store show that gave you a ticket to watch races for prizes in a 30 minute weekly show.

With so many choices for entertainment and sensory overload at every turn, you have to go to the public an somehow make more of their daily life. I wish someone in racing would support a one page horse racing news update in US Today or something like that.

I know living in England horse racing's prominance in daily life is substantial.

I don't think it's an internal solution, it's putting it in the face of Joe public and selling him on the upside what ever that should, could be.

GREAT READ, this thread. Just this humble novices thoughts.....

- The locals that I know well here, well they have a bad opinion of New York Racing. Why? Well, if ya listen to them they tell you that "Them New Yorker's are all crooks". Now, how can NYRA try to get these stubborn heads to see the light?

- If you manage a "Racino" properly, I don't see why it won't work. With skilled people in their proper positions of power and a CLEAR seperation of the casino atmosphere and the track atmosphere. I feel that is CRITICAL, cause I don't go the track to hear all those machines.

- Advertising the jockeys? Most can't put together a complete sentence (no offense) and they all look the same (again, no offense). The horses, on the other hand.

- Truth be told, at least in Ohio, gambling is eveil in many folks eyes but yet their is a bingo parlor on every street corner. Horse racing is a very pure form of entertainment where one can take a date. He can take his lady friend to the track, buy her a half decent meal and some drinks, and maybe even end the night with more money then he started with.

- My last thought. Folks in postions of power in the industry are doing very little to advertise their product to potential new customers. Sure, slots will draw all kinds, but............................................... ..............if the management does not draw the clear line between THE HORSE RACING EXPERIENCE and the CASINO EXPERIENCE then it is a failure in the making

The fact is that if they treated racing like a lottery, promote the P6 for the $2 bettor. Like the "dollar and a dream" theme in lottery. Instead of "mystery bet" vouchers with admission, why noy a $2 quick pick on the P4 or P6? Get them watching and cheering for 4 or 6 consecutive races. It's a betting game and honestly the odds are better than lotto or such. Plus, all the novice money in the pools is good for experienced bettors.

Definitely. Can they market it by pointing out what the takeout is in a Pick Six pool as opposed to the lottery? I could see that causing them to butt heads with the lottery but really if they could point out that a higher percentage of the Pick Six pool goes back to the bettors than the lottery does it would encourage players to play quick Pick 6s instead. I suppose the only problem would be for the normal horseplayers if in what would normally be an obvious carryover situation someone scooped the pot on a quick pick.

Great article. Thanks for putting it up.

Just my two pennies...I don't think slots are the answer.

And HHH, Grand Union is still around...I went grocery shopping there yesterday.

I guess we should get back to the fact we don't need a F@$#%& Circus at the racetrack whether it's Saratoga or Aqueduct and that's what Wynn is throwing out there. Listening to most people out there, NYRA seems to be the way to go. Now as I posted elsewhere, isn't there somone out there with connections to the committee or other friends in high places that can show them these forums, this one or any other ones for that matter, that show what a reasonable amount of people think about the situation of racing in NY

My sixpack of ideas to help NY racing (although some of the principles would apply everywhere):

1. Reduce takeout across the board by 2%. This would cost the state approximately $35-40MM a year in takeout off the top, but the expectation of that money going back through the windows 5X as most studies have proven would actually end up with a gain at the end of the day.

2. Offer new types of wagers that people would be interested in (and no... that doesn't mean the Grand Slam is something people are interested in.)
Here's two possibilities:
- The "Beat the Favorite" (low takeout): How often do you hear a novice (or even expert horseplayer) say, "I don't like the favorite in this race, but I don't have a good idea otherwise." This wager would allow the player to take a shot with the field or on the post time favorite, in an easy to bet fashion.
- The "Super Six" (high takeout): One race a day, with a minimum of 12 betting interests (note that this allows for 665,280 possible combinations), requiring the player to select the top 6 finishers in a row. Allow people to bet it for a buck anywhere lottery tickets are sold as well as on- or off-track (wouldn't be difficult to add the lottery terminals into the totalisator system), as soon as entries are available, either in a quickpick or normal manner. If no tickets have all 6 correct, the pool carries over. The race would be replayed at the time they do the Lottery drawing. Imagine the mania the first time someone quickpicks at a grocery store and hits for a million bucks. If marketed correctly, this could grow into a phenomenon, easily a $1,000,000 daily handle bet.

3. Increase the Saratoga meet to 8 weeks. This is a no-brainer, everyone benefits. There isn't a better place in the world to go to the races... and "more is better" applies.

4. Decrease the winter meet to 3 or 4 days a week. More (healthy) horses in the fields = more competitive races = more handle.

5. WHEN the racino is completed, make sure the races are being played on TV's as well as live outside the windows so people KNOW they're at a racetrack and not some slot parlor. If 1 person a day decides to quit on the one-armed bandits and plays the horses instead, the idea is success. For a lesson in how NOT to run a racino, take a ride 75 miles south to Philadelphia Park, where the racing is a forgotten afterthought these days (not that it was great before, but I took my first trip there after the renovation 2 weeks ago and there isn't even an easy way to go to the paddock or the rail anymore. It's a complete joke.)

6. Make the off-track experience more enjoyable. It's no secret that the highest grossing NYCOTB's are the restaurant/bar parlors. Part of this would be a state mandate to require the takeover of the state's arcane and fraudulent OTB system, which for the out of staters is actually 5 different entities, and by the nature of the business is lost revenue for the track.

Do you really want a failure of an organization to have its franchise agreement renewed for another 20 years?

Is the Big A in great shape because of the good work NYRA has done?

Does NYRA have any experience running a racino?

You need someone who has had experience at running both racetracks and racinos. You need someone in charge who has some people with eyes to the future, not padding their payrolls with cronies and turning their backs to internal corruption.

"NYRA--We Have Screwed Up--Give Us 20 More Years to get it Right!!!" :mad:

And the "on track" racing product will "go out the window"...you can count on that! Why do all the NYRA haters think things will be so much better with someone else running the show? IT'S A RACETRACK...not a place for VLT'S, shops and any other type of amusement. It's about the horses and people who wager on them, the rest of the stuff can be for those who want only the gambling action.

Ahhh, let's have Frankie turn our beloved Saratoga into Gulfstream, great idea or have Stevie make the Jim Dandy into The Playboy Suite at the Palms.
This ain't South Beach, Laguna Beach or Vegas, this UPF*$%ING STATE NY...we don't need that sh*t here to have the best racing(besides inner crap)in the country. Awhile back it was Spitz and Bruno in the pockets of Excel. & Empire, and you're saying who is corrupt? Jerry Bailey is whoring himself out and making himself look like an ass doing it...helmet cams...didn't Vince McMahon make this sh*tup for the XFL? Tell you what, go play with Ahhhnold and his TWIN Danny Devito on your CushionTrack sandbox. READ THE ARTICLE AND READ THE THREAD, THEN MAKE AN EDUCATED STATEMENT!!!