More importantly, I think you're missing one huge thing. The only basis for defending him that would hold ANY weight is the notion that were he trying to save ground if he didn't think he had a lot of horse on the turn, one could perhaps find a TINY space in their heart to cut him some slack.

You keep talking about saving ground, but they were on the straight. Simple geometry says that there is no ground to be "saved" on a straight stretch of racetrack.

Though I am not an expert horse rider, so that may impact my math and reasoning skills...

Actually, Pillow Pants said "going to the inside of 2 horses in a five horse field is okay?" I gave him examples where it was okay to do so.

I admitted that I was wrong, but I didn't know I was wrong yesterday because I didn't know the trainer's instructions, hadn't seen the trainer's and rider's commentary, and didn't know this particular horse's tendencies.

And another thing is that I wasn't making gross generalizations yesterday too. If you want to play that game, you were making gross generalizations when you didn't even know the trainer's instructions or the horse's tendencies. I even admitted in the thread yesterday in response to 2MINSTOPOST that he may be right and that my outlook may be wrong.

Also, I was saying that people needed to stop bashing jockeys as a whole, and those I am talking about know who they are. I was also referring to other threads over the past few days when I was talking about that. Also, I didn't try to chatise anyone, and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

And I'm not blaming others. Where I am I blaming others? Show me.

I wasn't talking about Ramon's ride when I posted that. I was talking about, in general, when a jockey needs to go to the inside in a race.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, a 3 to 5 shot should be ridden differently than your average horse. Two words...AVOID TROUBLE.

simply becuase theyre 3-5? like youve never saw a 3-5 shot that had no business being those odds

This nonsense about not being able to evaluate the ride without knowing the trainers's instructions really needs to stop. Anyone that knows the first thing about watching a race knew that what Ramon did yesterday was inexcusable. Are you trying to suggest that the trainer could have told him to find the path of MOST resistance?

It was a bad ride, that you defended yesterday, and were wrong. You were " blaming others " in that you were suggesting those of us that called it a bad ride were in any way out of line. We were not only NOT out of line....we were 100% correct.

There are some 3 to 5s that are better than others, no doubt. Still, you are most likely sitting on the best horse by a lot at 3 to 5, and don't need to work out inventive trips to win. If the horse is a bad 3 to 5, it probably won't win with a perfect trip.

Of course you're right, and anyone that has talked extensively to riders, which I have, knows that one of the toughest things about riding big favorites ( which obviously they would like to always do ) is making sure the horse does not lose due to jockey error. A good rider knows when he may need to help his mount and when he can only hurt it.

To the person who suggests that all 3:5s aren't the same....obviously this is true but in general, the better a mount the less chances a rider should, and usually does, take.

I did not call those of you who called it a bad ride way out of line. I called those who have been bashing jockeys way out of line.

Obviously, you either like starting stuff or need to learn how to read. Go back and read what I posted to 2MINSTOPOST in that thread yesterday.

It was brutal. Montolvo did it earlier in the week at Tampa in a five horse field. Sat off a three horse speed dual then tried to come up the rail, got shut off, pinned in, and finished third. The ride in NY was horrific as well.

What do you say to a trainer in that situation? Sorry doesnt cut it.

If Ted Ginn Jr. had been riding, the horse would have won going away.

thats the most inept ride ive seen in 5 years..what a tool ... gary should tell him to take a hike..just awefull the horse is looking around as if to say..wtf?

that she was...

Oh, let's not get the priorities mixed up, he talks to tons of jockeys...lol:p :D

Sorry, after your post to me about Matz the other day, I couldn't help myself.

This is the second time you have claimed a poster who was correctly pointing out the inaccuracies in your posts was doing it for some personal reason.

Way to stick to the issue!

UMM he actually DOES talk to tons of jockeys...
your post the other day was about a friend who asked a question of matz...not quite the same thing.

And I don't know anyone or talk to anyone in the business...lol.:D

I don't know or care who you know...I'm quite sure that you have the same opinion of my contacts...
however i can assure you that BTW has more, and that they are legitimate and exist at all levels of the game.

Are you honestly this clueless? Do you think because I don't litter my posts with names that I don't know a LOT of people in the industry?

This is completely irrelevent. You made an idiotic remark about my talking to jockeys, as if to suggest I was lying, which was completely out of line. Nobody referenced, or cares, as to whether or not you know anybody in this game.