I could care less what horses didn't do well on that day.If a horse ran well Saturday,then good,but I don't care if others didn't do well.Look....You f'n got 5 grade 1 winners in the sprint that couldn't hit the board.None of them.I'm sorry,but to me the results of the day don't mean much.Not when 5 grade 1 winners can't even get 3rd.That day is a toss(the dirt races,)and you will see that when horses that ran poorly on Saturday come back and run very well. If Pletcher said the horse wants 2 turns,then he wants 2 turns.I know people don't like it,but many horses could not handle that track.Seemed like Scat was o.k. until he left the rail and got out into the middle of the track.I wouldn't be too concerned about it.The day is gunna stand out like a sore thumb in the past performances of many horses.The riders of Grade one winners Bordonaro,Siren Lure,and Henny Hughes all said their horses couldn't handle that track.You want to ignore them( one,and all,)then fine.They ran great before that day,and they will run great after that day.That track was crap,and 5 or 6 months from now you will get that(but not now.)

Your handicapping, all around, is not that special.

who are you...id go head to head with ya no problem

Frankly, he looked poor in the flesh on the walkover for whatever reason...his coat was rather dull and he didn't inspire. Additionally, he is still green and a big kid IMO...he never looked comfortable all race and was tight and checked going into the first turn and never settled...I'm starting to wonder if his sire is Johanessburg or Dollar Bill after his first 5 starts of his career.....sheesh...

Also, he was the ONLY horse to track a fast pace and still be around at the wire - 4th - and did that despite racing very wide and well off of the golden rail that propelled Street Sense to an easy victory as if he were on a conveyor belt...it almost looked like the old Keeneland...

Personally, I am unsure how far Scat Daddy will go, but I think 1 1/16 miles is within his reach. Funny you mentioned More Than Ready because that is exactly who I liken him to, actually.

He is one of the best of his generation and I think he'll show it. Street Sense is also nice and has also been a "clocker's horse" around CD and one of the better babies on the grounds in KY. Plus, you know Street Sense will improve in a slow barn and with the pedigree to be better as he gets older.

The Breeders' Cup is what it is.....its almost like the Derby in that the best horses rarely win for whatever reason. IMO, the only horses that won Saturday who I can firmly believe to be the best horses in each of their respective division was Dreaming of Anna, who was a standout on the sheets and was just much faster than the others in the Juv. Fillies (but even she got a golden rail trip, so who knows?) AND of course - Ouija Board.

For whatever reason, most of the best horses were either up against a bias or didn't run their best races, etc. and that is why the average win payoff on a BC race is like somewhere around $28....the best horses don't always win..

Scat Daddy will be okay...its just a shame to me that Bernie didn't fire his best shot and now we'll never really know how good he was.....I'm pissed they retired him..

Guys anyone who uses sheets of any kind had "BOUNCE" written over his pp's in huge Red Ink.
He ran a huge lifetime top in the Champagne and was running back on only 3 weeks rest.
Pletcher never would have run him had the race not been for two million.
Hes better than he showed that day, as are many horses who ran against that insane scraped rail bias.

For a horse you definitively spoke of as the virtual second coming this is quite an analysis of his performance. Not that Bernardini didn't run well, as he probably ran his best race, but a little " maybe I overrated him slightly " might be a bit more appropriate.

Ya know, the old " I wasn't wrong...the horse was " is not the road to success.

Hey Blackie... we agree on something! :eek: I, too, felt this was Bernardini's best effort to date... and he impressed me for the first time in losing. Very good 3 yo... not an all-time great.

I think Scat Daddy came back to soon. I really believe you need to give at least 5 weeks inbetween starts with 2 year olds. I also think Scat Daddy ran a real good race. The winner went out and won by 10 lengths. To me, this race is a throw out race when each of the horses races again. I think Scat will continue to grow and fill out a little and will be fine. To me, the horse reminds me more of Pulpit than More Than Ready. But who knows.

If you think that was his best effort then you may want to try another profession. He was second on raw talent and heart alone, as I personally thought he was dead going into the far turn when Javier had to rouse him to take chase up on Brother Derek of all horses on the lead - whom we know isn't half the horse Bernie is....I knew he was beat at that point. When he fires his best shot he cruises to the lead under his own courage....I don't think he handled the track well, personally...

And yes, I stil think he was one of the more talented horses of the last 20 years and it is a shame he never got a chance to prove it. :mad:

...I know hes a better horse than the one that beat him.....

Pulpit? Really? I agree more along the lines of the More Than Ready comparison. He's going to have distance limitations but I do think he's a dangerous horse in any race at 1 1/16 and I think he's the type of horse that will play a big role in the outcome of any race over 1 1/16 just by pressing horses with class. He just wont win them. ;)

Its funny how this worked out. What I find ironic is that many folks had doubts about Ghostzapper and his ability to go a mile and a quarter. I was among them. What Ghostzapper did that day was mind boggling. It was the biggest display of raw speed and talent that I ever saw. I watched the race, believed what I saw and immediately declared him the best horse I ever saw run. I still feel that way now. I doubt I will see another like him anytime soon, if ever.
I didn't make excuses about anything, I just admitted that my doubts about his ability to go a true route were completely without basis.
In this case I guess the love for this horse(Bern) was very deep by many folks who loved him and I suspect they are still stunned and searching for reasons why he lost.
Perspective on situations is usually better after some time has past, the emotions dim and true analysis of the situation is easier to do. Maybe a year from now, after some time has gone by, we'd be able to revisit this situation again without the emotional components clouding the situation.

I dont know Joel. I thought his final move was truly a good show of talent. He picked off horses without any problem and his stride was fluent and true. I just think he was tested for the first time by a horse that was better than anything he's seen before.

I will give you he's one of the best 3 yo's in the last 20 years. But one of the best across all divisions for the last 20? Thats a jagged pill...

Start the 3-page long quarrels in 5..4..3...2...

I definitely don't think it was his best effort to date, but he showed to me that he can compete against a huge field after being asked too soon IMO. It's incredible to me that Flower Alley got as much hype as he did last year for finishing 2nd in the classic as a 3 year old, but Bernardini hasn't gotten the same respect.

I originally thought that Bernardini had "quit" as he was passed by Invasor, but I've re-watched the classic a dozen times and come to the conclusion that the horse was either exhausted or just not handling the track very well. It's a shame that he won't be running again as I think that he would have improved as a 4 year old and we would have seen an extremely nice 4 year old. Oh well...

I was never emotionally attached to this horse... maybe that's why he showed me more in defeat than he ever did in winning. I was never a member of his bandwagon and actually found the talk about him rather nauseating.

With that said, I truly was impressed with his BC effort and thought he made a very admirable move. In my mind, the loss doesnt tarnish him, but improves the lustre... but then again, I wasnt a hardcore fan.

I never thought of him as a superhorse... but one that still had to prove it... and he proved he was a top 3yo with a lot of talent. He proved he can be devastating to a field... but he also proved he's beatable and didnt deserve all the hype he got.

In my mind... great 3 yo... lots of talent... exciting horse... but it ends there.

I think he is much more talented than More Than Ready. I think once he gets on grass he will really shine.

No quarrels. I think everyone agrees he's talented... one of the best 3 yo's in some time. Lets just keep it at that. Any other argument is now just speculatory. We'll never know.

Dude, I might want to try another profession? You are a confirmed chalk eating weasel who was full of bravado after any obvious short priced horse you liked won and were absent for DAYS after your mediocre opinions were exposed in the BC. Please.

But, furthermore, the rest of your post pretty much confirmed what I said. He ran a very good race despite everything not going his way. If you think cruising to the lead against High Cotton is the same as cruising to the lead against the likes of Brother Derek and Lava Man, among others, you are dramatically mistaken. You are the one that misevaluated this horse for months, said things that turned out to simply not be true, and are now acting like he wasn't himself because he was finally presented with a reasonably difficult challenge? Get real. The simple fact is he is the same good horse now that he was a month ago. He was never going to run faster if pressed, as you basically guaranteed, and he was never as good as the likes of Ghostzapper as you also claimed. Constantly suggesting horses that you were wrong about " didn't run their race " is NOT going to get you far. Ya know, even good handicappers are wrong most of the time.

To me he wasnt tested at all. To me, Dini went and got the lead and did what he normally does. Then Invasor just cruised on by. It isnt like they were inches apart eyeballing each other. Invasor was faster and better than day. There really isnt to much more to say about it.

bern was all out and got beat ...hes a good horse who qot get beat by a fresher very nice horse who moved at the right time....there was no looking in the eye..javy didnt see him till he moved past..do i think if they raced in three weeks time who would win ..it would be bern....but invasor is a very nice horse who should get the credit and the cash...they had a game plan and it worked..