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-   The Steve Dellinger Discourse Den (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   spitzer on romney, taxes (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47853)

Clip-Clop 08-09-2012 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881808)
yeah, my father is 71 and still works part time at the golf course where he lives. it's absurd, just like military pensions. and just like full ss paid when you turn 65-and a loser like my bro in law will collect full benefits with the bare minimum worked. it's all absolutely ridiculous. there are so many real issues that need addressing, but all the pols in dc (yes, ALL of them, regardless of party affiliation) work only on keeping their seats. they kick all problems down the road.
don't work on debt, just keep raising the ceiling (both parties).
don't do an ss fix (both parties) just keep saying it only needs minor tweaking, but don't even effing do the tweaking.
don't address medicare/caid-just cut payments to doctors, while doing nothing about fraud, waste and abuse.
don't do anything about defense (both parties) because the contractors provide jobs in their hometowns, and that might cost votes.

what are (again, repeating myself) the two biggest drains on the federal govt? defense, and 'entitlements'. not foreign aid, not any of the other depts in the federal govt.
so, one would have to assume, that if those two areas were properly addressed, the debt/deficit issues would be resolved.

as for taxes-the rich are paying less in taxes than they have in decades. as their share has gone down, the supposed jump in hiring has NOT occurred. those cuts haven't worked! yet people want to continue them. why? i'll tell you why.
because the rich control the purse strings. the two big parties need cut off at the knees.
Yet Scott Brown will be voted out this year in lieu of another party line sheep. Shame, I hope he moves to Colorado if it goes down. Think I should send him a note?

Danzig 08-09-2012 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 881814)
Yet Scott Brown will be voted out this year in lieu of another party line sheep. Shame, I hope he moves to Colorado if it goes down. Think I should send him a note?
that's the thing...one party loses, their imminent death as a viable party is proclaimed. the other party has risen like the phoenix from its ashes (because previously it was written off as dead and buried)...
the voters run, back and forth, from one evil to the other....and then we all wonder why nothing changes.
we need another ross perot. someone who has the $ and the ability to get something going. someone who is an alternative, that people will vote for without feeling they're 'wasting a vote'.

Clip-Clop 08-09-2012 10:28 AM
I'm going mountain biking all this typing has made me sad this morning.

dellinger63 08-09-2012 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 881799)
Obviously you do not understand me. I am fine with the amounts of the pensions I just think they should collect it starting at 65 no in their 40's.
OK I didn't understand you and I completely disagree.

Public pensions are contributed to every year by the taxpayer. That money is put into an account and invested by the pension fund manager. Should that pension manager make a bad financial decision and lose money, just like a private citizens 401K, the balance is decreased. However unlike the private citizen public sector pensions are insured by the fact taxpayers (private citizens) will be required to pay for any loses.

Recently my work lead me to review the WorldCom BK case. The number of public pension funds listed as creditors was outstanding. That money is gone forever and it is the mistake of the pension fund manager hired by whatever public union not the taxpayer.

Since the taxpayer also pays the salary of the public worker, putting food in their childrens mouths, clothing them, paying for vacations, healthcare etc. It would be a nice gesture for them to give something back to the taxpayer. Maybe restoring their 401k's etc. :D

Clip-Clop 08-09-2012 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881817)
that's the thing...one party loses, their imminent death as a viable party is proclaimed. the other party has risen like the phoenix from its ashes (because previously it was written off as dead and buried)...
the voters run, back and forth, from one evil to the other....and then we all wonder why nothing changes.
we need another ross perot. someone who has the $ and the ability to get something going. someone who is an alternative, that people will vote for without feeling they're 'wasting a vote'.
Ross is touchy with me, 41 was a great man and Ross was the problem there.

Danzig 08-09-2012 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 881820)
Ross is touchy with me, 41 was a great man and Ross was the problem there.
just using him as an example of a third party candidate getting some real attention.

dellinger63 08-09-2012 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 881819)

Recently my work lead me to review the WorldCom BK case. The number of public pension funds listed as creditors was outstanding. That money is gone forever and it is the mistake of the pension fund manager hired by whatever public union not the taxpayer.
Some of the worst losers:

Quote:
The news disintegrated the value of WorldCom's already battered shares, and three bond-rating agencies slashed WorldCom's debt ratings deeper into "junk" territory, citing the increased likelihood of default.

As a result of all this, the California Public Employees' Retirement System, the biggest pension fund in the U.S., faces an unrealized loss of $565 million in its $150 billion portfolio, according to the Reuters news agency.

The country's No. 2 pension fund, the New York state retirement system, estimates it lost $300 million. It has $112 billion in total assets.

Reuters notes that Cal Teachers, the third-largest U.S. public pension fund, with $100 billion in assets, suffered a $109 million unrealized loss due to WorldCom.

Reuters also reported these other state pension fund losses related to WorldCom:

- The State of Wisconsin Investment Board says realized losses on its $58.5 billion in assets reached $29 million on WorldCom bonds and $7.3 million on stock.

- Michigan lost $116 million in its four pension funds.

- The Florida State Board of Administration public pension fund lost $92 million on WorldCom stock and estimates a $54 million loss on its bonds holdings.

- Virginia's retirement system has an unrealized stock loss of $44 million in indexed funds.

- Oregon pensions have $63 million in unrealized losses, of which $38 million is in stocks and $25 million is in bonds.

- North Carolina has $100 million in losses.
So sorry, the money is gone. But deal with like a private citizen would. You know the one's now asked to replace this lost :$::$::$:

And maybe hire a different fund manager!


http://compensation.blr.com/Compensa...ension-Funds/#

pointman 08-09-2012 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881763)
i figured some would immediately mention spitzers past.

what that has to do with the points made i don't know.
Spitzer also lacks credibility since he was a man drunk on power who governed as a bully who forced people out who disagreed with him (sound like anyone here?). He also is a Keynesion follower which are principles that have been proven to not work. He also left a mess in New York by banging a hooker with his socks on.

pointman 08-09-2012 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 881791)
How about elimination of government pensions and make them 401K's like everyone else has for the last 30 years. How about and I know I will catch a rash of **** here but how about military pensions/police mentions starting at 65. There is so much ****ing waste in the system but those that are responsible for fixing the problem are benefitting from it so it will never be fixed.
You are seeing the light here, J. Something has to be done about these pensions that the taxpayers cannot afford nor can get in the private sector. They will bankrupt this country. As long as the Unions are in the politicians pockets (overwhelmingly Democracts) we are doomed.

Danzig 08-09-2012 01:18 PM
i was looking up some facts and figures on the state of arkansas yesterday. i found it somewhat disheartening that the top employer in the state was the state government.
third highest with number of employees? the federal government.

Danzig 08-09-2012 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointman (Post 881847)
Spitzer also lacks credibility since he was a man drunk on power who governed as a bully who forced people out who disagreed with him (sound like anyone here?). He also is a Keynesion follower which are principles that have been proven to not work. He also left a mess in New York by banging a hooker with his socks on.
so had he taken them off, would it have been less of a mess????? :D:D

jms62 08-09-2012 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881875)
i was looking up some facts and figures on the state of arkansas yesterday. i found it somewhat disheartening that the top employer in the state was the state government.
third highest with number of employees? the federal government.
Sounds like Haiti.

Danzig 08-09-2012 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointman (Post 881851)
You are seeing the light here, J. Something has to be done about these pensions that the taxpayers cannot afford nor can get in the private sector. They will bankrupt this country. As long as the Unions are in the politicians pockets (overwhelmingly Democracts) we are doomed.
yeah, guaranteed pensions are a killer right now, with the current interest climate-and it's been bad for some time.
my biggest concerns about 401 k's are absolutely no guarantees, and the people working them for companies make HUGE money off them with the fees. that can be scary-some people are clueless about funds, and would be counting on money to be there...but if they screw it up, they won't have any money to retire with.

Danzig 08-09-2012 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 881878)
Sounds like Haiti.
it's unsustainable. govts don't make profits. you can't have govt be the highest employer, when employees are paid from tax dollars. it's damned depressing.

pointman 08-09-2012 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881877)
so had he taken them off, would it have been less of a mess????? :D:D
I'll defer the answer to that to Doug . . . .

dellinger63 08-09-2012 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881882)
it's unsustainable. govts don't make profits. you can't have govt be the highest employer, when employees are paid from tax dollars. it's damned depressing.
It will be like Poland in the 1970's. People will pretend to work and the gov. will pretend paying them in a few decades

dellinger63 08-09-2012 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881875)
i was looking up some facts and figures on the state of arkansas yesterday. i found it somewhat disheartening that the top employer in the state was the state government.
third highest with number of employees? the federal government.
:tro:


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