thanks for that ateam and calzone, i figured as much.

you'd think that irwin would rather not use it, so that when his horses win, he could say 'aha! see, i told you!'. so why doesn't he???

The Dubai Duty Free was a neat race that year. $5 million purse with a 16 horse field.

Japan's Admire Moon (End Sweep out of Sunday Silence mare) won the race as the post time favorite.

However, here is a look at some of the horses that didn't fire at all in the race.

* 12th place finisher:




* 14th place finisher:




* 15th place finisher:




* 16th place finisher:




Another big day for Japan turf racing in Dubai. Not so for turf racing in America and India.

I'm curious, when is the last time a 3 or older horse won a G1 stake in the US without Lasix?

I don't remember you posting any objective data on this board. You have said here, "it's a fact". Prove it. It's not fair that we just believe it because you say it, right? Prove that horses improve lengths when they are given lasix. Can you link to that, please? Thanks.

I will have I have some free time. I can't imagine any seasoned horseplayer would even try to deny this is true.

Steve often mentions the book "Champions", or did in the past. Peruse that for a bit and just look at our top horses' Beyer figures before and after Lasix. I particularly find it interesting to see the jumps on horses coming off of good races, including wins.

i don't know, when? it's actually not something i've ever paid attention to, so i have no idea. perhaps invasor, who doug mentioned above?

Not in the US he didn't. I don't know, but I think the fact it will take quite a bit of research says a lot.

You say lasix is a performance enhancer that should be banned because you allege it improves horses performances by lengths, whether the horse is a bleeder or not.

I'm a veterinarian that agrees with the 99.99% of veterinary medical and scientific professionals that lasix is a necessary and good therapeutic medication whose use must be continued for the health and welfare of the race horse, and should not be considered a "performance enhancer".

I am listed on published scientific papers on the effect of lasix in race horses, and I have read the majority, if not all, of scientific information on the effect of lasix in race horses.

I've never read any studies that support your contention, that lasix is a strict performance enhancer. Only studies that contradict it.

So I'm really interested in your "facts", as your contention, unsupported by the veterinary medical community, is 100% of the argument against using this valuable therapeutic medication to help horses.

** The common way for "seasoned horse players" to bet horses is first or second use lasix. There's some interesting scientific data related to that. To bad horse players ignore science ;)

But that doesn't have anything to do with the odd allegation that "lasix is a performance enhancer in all horses that moves horses up lengths".

I'll be interested to see your "proof". Can't wait.

I think the better question is who was the last US-trained G1 winner in the US without Lasix. Have to think the overall question would be answered by a Euro shipping in...Shirocco, someone like that?

I said a few lengths.


I don't really care who you are.

I don't care if you are listed on craigslist.

Yes, I'm the first one to ever bring it up. Sure I am. I also never said it was only a performance enhancer.

The medical community has no idea how to measure thoroughbred performance under race conditions, including you. Oh, and it is "too", not "to".

I never said all horses. That would be silly.

Yes, I'm sure you are right. And now, for a shameless redboard, I bet Shirocco in the BC.

I don't. Just saw some irony.

I think Andre Fabre emptied his bank account too...

You are a member of a very small-in-quantity minority group, with your thoughts on lasix. You and like-minded folks have the responsibility to prove to people your allegations about lasix are true, before the sport gives them any credence.

As I thought. No proof. Thank you.

Me too.

Well, I told you I didn't have time today. Small in quantity minority group? You mean like everywhere but North and South America?

I'm not sure why we have to prove anything, but I will. Most horses are given Lasix with no proof of bleeding.

Invasor -- he's the best!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :o

Awesome!

What is the typical average monthly vet bill of a horse in one of the large stables overseas?