Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   Stakes Archive (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   10/1 (BEL): JCGC, Beldame, JHTC, Vosburgh, FlwrBwl (G1's), Kelso (G2) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43911)

helicopter11 10-01-2011 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 808752)
Jaime Spencer tried really, really hard to get Cape Blanco beat. He sucks.

Horse probably did not like the surface today. I would not blame Spencer as he really worked hard to get this horse cross the finish line.

Dahoss 10-01-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helicopter11 (Post 808767)
Horse probably did not like the surface today. I would not blame Spencer as he really worked hard to get this horse cross the finish line.

Didn't look like any of them liked the surface. But Spencer moved prematurely. It never should have been that close. He worked hard because he moved so early.

Again, he sucks.

helicopter11 10-01-2011 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 808760)
Nice effort by Uncle Mo, but I'm curious what Nakatani's plan was exactly on Jackson Bend?

Not sure if he could have anything different to make it even close. Fast pace, closed fast and fell short

MaTH716 10-01-2011 04:16 PM

I noted it in the play along thread, Spencer's move was awful. He single handily almost got Cape Blanco beat.

Nakatani's was another bizarre move, just horribly timed.

To the connections of Life at Ten, the blinkers didn't work. She's just not the same horse as she was pre-BC last year. Please retire her, she's done enough.

helicopter11 10-01-2011 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 808769)
Didn't look like any of them liked the surface. But Spencer moved prematurely. It never should have been that close. He worked hard because he moved so early.

Again, he sucks.

He probably did move prematurely but I would not rack it up that he sucks. He is not a regular rider at Belmont. You could have said the same thing about Dominguez since he had every chance to get by.

Kasept 10-01-2011 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helicopter11 (Post 808774)
Not sure if he could have anything different to make it even close. Fast pace, closed fast and fell short

You don't need to make your move on the turn like that at Belmont. It takes great energy from the horse and almost never works. And to then try to stay inside assured a loss of momentum if they couldn't get through, and bingo. I don't think Jackson Bend beats Uncle Mo anyway, but he was excellent again today and not necessarily used to best advantage by Nakatani.

outofthebox 10-01-2011 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman (Post 808765)
His move was also more premature than Newbomb Turk's with Fran Drescher in Hollywood Knights.

Visually it looked premature. If he sits and waits he still runs second. Either way he was not going to win the way the track is playing. I'm sure Zito and Nakatani knew they had to be within striking distance for them to have a chance at beating Mo.
Royal Delta faced the same problem later on. They tried to stay with HDG early on and she lost her punch but was good enough to be second best.

outofthebox 10-01-2011 04:25 PM

Only question now is Life at Ten going to take another shot at the BC?

MaTH716 10-01-2011 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox (Post 808784)
Only question now is Life at Ten going to take another shot at the BC?

Why, they are going to have an optional 50k claimer on the undercard that she's going to run in?

Dahoss 10-01-2011 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helicopter11 (Post 808777)
He probably did move prematurely but I would not rack it up that he sucks. He is not a regular rider at Belmont. You could have said the same thing about Dominguez since he had every chance to get by.

He has a long history of blowing rides in this country for making premature or just boneheaded moves. Instead of just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing take a look at why it was so close.

Why am I even wasting my time on something so obvious?

PatCummings 10-01-2011 04:54 PM

Remember Brian Pochman's visit on ATR in May, coming on before the big weekend at Lone Star, talking about how all the horsemen they talked to about going to the LSP Handicap were wondering if Flat Out was going...when he was a horse who really hadn't accomplished anything???

Indian Charlie 10-01-2011 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 808760)
Nice effort by Uncle Mo, but I'm curious what Nakatani's plan was exactly on Jackson Bend?

At first I thought WTF too.

Then I reconsidered. As much as I cannot stand Nak, I think he rode the race that gave him his only chance of winning. No way he could possibly have won with Mo saying loose like that. Not that he was going to win anyways, but at least that ride gave him a small hope that Mo might fold when challenged.

Indian Charlie 10-01-2011 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 808778)
You don't need to make your move on the turn like that at Belmont. It takes great energy from the horse and almost never works. And to then try to stay inside assured a loss of momentum if they couldn't get through, and bingo. I don't think Jackson Bend beats Uncle Mo anyway, but he was excellent again today and not necessarily used to best advantage by Nakatani.

True enough I suppose. I'll stand by my belief though that Nak thought he was giving his horse his best chance of winning.

All in all, I'll give JB credit. He ran a huge race. Of the races I saw today, his was the best, most surprising performance.

I also think Stay Thirsty ran a bigger race than I expected. I figured him not hitting the board.

It was stunning seeing Flat Out not being the heavy favorite.

Dahoss 10-01-2011 06:26 PM

After seeing how poorly Blind Luck ran today and considering she also missed whatever race over the summer they were going to run in, you have to give Havre De Grace a lot of credit. She came back from that grueling Delaware race and has run two very sharp races.

Kasept 10-01-2011 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 808822)
I also think Stay Thirsty ran a bigger race than I expected. I figured him not hitting the board.

It was stunning seeing Flat Out not being the heavy favorite.

As in the Travers, Stay Thirsty looked like he was backing up on the turn, but once again when asked and hard ridden, he responded to persevere. He's an interesting horse.

Andy tweeted too about Flat Out being shockingly underbet. The Scooter factor?

MaTH716 10-01-2011 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 808821)
At first I thought WTF too.

Then I reconsidered. As much as I cannot stand Nak, I think he rode the race that gave him his only chance of winning. No way he could possibly have won with Mo saying loose like that. Not that he was going to win anyways, but at least that ride gave him a small hope that Mo might fold when challenged.

It didn't matter because I don't think JB was winning either (especially with no one challing Uncle Mo early), but the problem I have with the move was that when he almost made the lead they still had a quarter of a mile to go. That was in a 23.2 quarter where Jackson Bend probably ran 22.3 making up about 5 lengths. What could of he really had for the stretch at that point? I just think that they would have better off served waiting until they got into the lane to try to get Mo. Maybe he would have gotten lazy and not seen him coming or JV could have ended up on the rail. The result probably would have been the same, but I just thinking that going after him late would have been better than going after him with still a quarter left to run.

OldDog 10-01-2011 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 808832)
Andy tweeted too about Flat Out being shockingly underbet. The Scooter factor?

Possibly. Funny how ESPN's people were wondering if they could get Scooter back on after talking to Harrington. I'd love to hear Scooter on ATR Monday, but doubt he'd have a lot more to say than what we heard this evening! Old school, man of few words. But when he was speechless, my eyes almost got wet. Maybe his wife will come on ATR with him? :D

Indian Charlie 10-01-2011 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 808832)
As in the Travers, Stay Thirsty looked like he was backing up on the turn, but once again when asked and hard ridden, he responded to persevere. He's an interesting horse.

Andy tweeted too about Flat Out being shockingly underbet. The Scooter factor?

I don't think a lot of Stay Thirsty. He seems like a grinder to me. I've seen grinders like him run like that. He's a horse with no acceleration!

As for Flat Out. I guess it's the Pletcher vs Scooter factor. Stay Thirsty has been the hype horse of the summer.

I found it amusing that off of a single grade 1 win and the grade 2 win that people were making into a grade 1, that he was being touted as the top 3yo.

Indian Charlie 10-01-2011 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 808842)
It didn't matter because I don't think JB was winning either (especially with no one challing Uncle Mo early), but the problem I have with the move was that when he almost made the lead they still had a quarter of a mile to go. That was in a 23.2 quarter where Jackson Bend probably ran 22.3 making up about 5 lengths. What could of he really had for the stretch at that point? I just think that they would have better off served waiting until they got into the lane to try to get Mo. Maybe he would have gotten lazy and not seen him coming or JV could have ended up on the rail. The result probably would have been the same, but I just thinking that going after him late would have been better than going after him with still a quarter left to run.

As a rather lunatic fan of anything sired by Indian Charlie, I was glad JB made that move so that Uncle Mo would get something out of the race.

I agree that premature move or late move, it wouldn't have mattered in the end, but I don't think it was even slightly possible for JB to have won the race considering all of the race dynamics, had he waited later to move.

Coach Pants 10-02-2011 12:39 PM

Looking at the stakes results it's no wonder why people play slots instead. Of course you're dealing with a sport full of yokels who've lost their competitive spirit and plan their campaigns like an overprotective mother. No wonder why these top horses are so garbage.

Ducking Uncle Mo? There really isn't much hope for the future if that's happening.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.