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-   -   All time best horses (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40800)

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 748918)
I don't consider the BCC an inferior race.
What about the 17 other mostly inferior races?

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 02:37 PM
The funny thing about Zenyatta is that she is stricty an Americn vice. The year end Int'l weights had her at 125 which was 3 pounds less than Quality Road and Blme.

randallscott35 02-04-2011 02:37 PM
I rank Blame 11th.

somerfrost 02-04-2011 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 748921)
Using that logic how is Tiznow rated below Zenyatta? Didn't he win the Classic twice? Are her narrow, all out wins over the weak fillies that she faced more impressive?

When you sit down and write down her list of accomplishments and compare to others she is usually dwarfed in achievment. She won a bunch of the same old, synthetic races in CA over and over. The Apple Blossom is NOT big race in this country.
Tiznow was 15/8-4-2. Zenyatta ran as hard as she needed to, margain of victory may not be impressive but her races certainly were. In a way, she reminds one of Kincsem who would often spot the field many lengths while grazing as the race began only to run them down at will.

miraja2 02-04-2011 02:42 PM
Zenyatta 7 spots in front of Affirmed huh?

The idea that Zenyatta would have posted a record as good as Affirmed did running against Alydar, Spectacular Bid, Exceller, Seattle Slew, Coastal and Sensitive Prince the way Affirmed did strikes me as beyond impossible.

But if we don't look at it that way and just looked at who accomplished more on the racetrack in their career by winning big races etc.....oh wait.....Affirmed should still be WAY ahead of Zenyatta.

miraja2 02-04-2011 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 748925)
In a way, she reminds one of Kincsem
True. They both raced against the local farmers' donkeys a bunch of times and people made a big deal out of them emerging victorious.

somerfrost 02-04-2011 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 748924)
I rank Blame 11th.
So what are your other 18 top ranked horses?

Sightseek 02-04-2011 02:53 PM
Evening Attire is high on my list. He was really, really old for a racehorse and came from behind and still won. That has to mean something.

somerfrost 02-04-2011 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek (Post 748933)
Evening Attire is high on my list. He was really, really old for a racehorse and came from behind and still won. That has to mean something.
Raced through 10yo season...69/15-16-9. Certainly a hard knocking one!

Antitrust32 02-04-2011 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 748862)
Those who know me are aware that I maintain an "all time best top 100" list just to maintain some knowledge of the sport and it's history. Obviously this is a highly subjective undertaking and just one old railbird's opinion. Not to overly bore folks, here is my updated top 20:
(1) Secretariat (1970)...simply the best
(2) Kincsem (1874)...towers above others of her generation
(3) Ribot (1952)...record speaks for itself
(4) Man O War (1917)...wish they hadn't ducked Exterminator
(5) Citation (1945)...defines "Warhorse"
(6) Sea Bird (1962)...Arc wonder
(7) Flying Childers (1715)...first great one
(8) Spectacular Bid (1976)...should have won TC
(9) Count Fleet (1940)...vastly underrated
(10) Native Dancer (1950)...great sire but don't forget races
(11) Zenyatta (2004)...either love her or not
(12) Eclipse (1764)...father of modern day horses
(13) St Simon (1881)
(14) Kelso (1957)
(15) Ruffian ((1972)
(16) War Admiral (1934)
(17) Seattle Slew (1974)
(18) Affirmed (1975)
(19) Colin (1905)
(20) Exterminator (1915)

:zz:

this list is pure garbage. Please keep pumping money into pari-mutuel pools.

Antitrust32 02-04-2011 03:18 PM
You left off Peppers Pride and Hallowed Dreams.

somerfrost 02-04-2011 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 748946)
:zz:

this list is pure garbage. Please keep pumping money into pari-mutuel pools.
Again, easy to be critical...lot less work to call someone's efforts garbage than to actually do work yourself and defend your opinions.

Antitrust32 02-04-2011 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 748950)
Again, easy to be critical...lot less work to call someone's efforts garbage than to actually do work yourself and defend your opinions.
I just hope you didnt spend too much effort on this this list.

Zenyatta at 11 basically defends all opinions.

She is the only horse on that list born after 1976, yet you could probably make a list of 100 horses since then 1976 that were better than her. Including Blame, who just beat her a couple months ago.

Zenyatta is better than Easy Goer? Cigar? Ghostzapper? Point Given?

How about just the females since 1976. Go For Wand and Open Mind would have eaten her for lunch. Lady's Secret, Princess Rooney, Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, Silverbulletday, Life's Magic, Heavenly Prize, Serena's Song, Personal Ensign, Bayakoa, Paseana, Inside Information, Azeri....


I wont include Rachel for obvious reasons but the female horses I listed above were just as good or better than Zenyatta since 1976.

Now just think if I listed male horses.

somerfrost 02-04-2011 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 748953)
I just hope you didnt spend too much effort on this this list.

Zenyatta at 11 basically defends all opinions.

She is the only horse on that list born after 1976, yet you could probably make a list of 100 horses since then 1976 that were better than her. Including Blame, who just beat her a couple months ago.

Zenyatta is better than Easy Goer? Cigar? Ghostzapper? Point Given?

How about just the females since 1976. Go For Wand and Open Mind would have eaten her for lunch. Lady's Secret, Princess Rooney, Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, Silverbulletday, Life's Magic, Heavenly Prize, Serena's Song, Personal Ensign, Bayakoa, Paseana, Inside Information, Azeri....


I wont include Rachel for obvious reasons but the female horses I listed above were just as good or better than Zenyatta since 1976.

Now just think if I listed male horses.
Much better post...I obviously disagree but at least you named names. Since 1976, I have I have 16 horses included in my top 100, some of which you named (Cigar, Point Given, Lady's Secret, Personal Ensign). But it's hard to include others you named against the likes of those on my list. Again, just my opinion but my research has determined that I prefer them to others.

Dahoss 02-04-2011 04:33 PM
Where is Holy Bull on your list?

somerfrost 02-04-2011 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 748964)
Where is Holy Bull on your list?
#88....just below Dancing Brave (87) and before Parole (89)

The Indomitable DrugS 02-04-2011 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 748950)
Again, easy to be critical...lot less work to call someone's efforts garbage than to actually do work yourself and defend your opinions.
You'd have a better shot of defending Ted Bundy than that list.

Dahoss 02-04-2011 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 748968)
#88....just below Dancing Brave (87) and before Parole (89)
And Point Given is where on the list? I won't give you a hard time about Zenyatta being 11, because I think even you know how silly it is.

The Indomitable DrugS 02-04-2011 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 748981)
I won't give you a hard time about Zenyatta being 11, because I think even you know how silly it is.
The horse he has rated #7 that was foaled in 1715 - that horse didn't debut until age 6 - only ran six times in his career - and half of his six wins came by walkover.

That list is actually a pretty clever troll job in my opinion.

Dahoss 02-04-2011 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 748985)
The horse he has rated #7 that was foaled in 1715 - that horse didn't debut until age 6 - only ran six times in his career - and half of his six wins came by walkover.

That list is actually a pretty clever troll job in my opinion.
Yeah well it's easy to be critical.


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