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Quote:

Originally Posted by Phalaris1913

Actually, given that US races have only been graded since 1973, there are only two horses other than Sunday Silence who won at least two classics and a G1 vs. older as a 3YO. Those two occasions were Spectacular Bid winning the Marlboro and Pleasant Colony winning the Woodward. (Secretariat won the Marlboro, but the race was not graded until its third running in 1975.)

Still, there have been 17 classic seasons since Sunday Silence, a span of time that saw 11 dual classic winners. Not one was able to win a G1 vs. older as a 3YO and of those, Tabasco Cat was the only one who placed in one. There were 17 seasons between 1973 and 1989, with the same number of horses that won at least two classic races, with three of them going on to win a G1 vs. older as a 3YO. Secretariat at least won a race of central importance (the Marlboro was ungraded, but was the richest race of the year). Affirmed and Alysheba both finished second in G1s vs. older. There simply was a greater presence of multiple classic 3YOs in the fall vs. their elders in the earlier period vs. the later period.

Those of us who came of age in racing in the 1980s and before remember champion 3YO males who were both dominant classic horses and credible late in the year. Expecting that, however, is probably obsolete, given the increasing rarity of classic winners having much of a post-classic career.

Thanks for the info. I actually agreed with u from the start in your general point. I just didn't know how often it happened earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phalaris1913

Actually, given that US races have only been graded since 1973 ...

But it's not very difficult to determine which races before 1973 would have been G1 ... since most of the most important G1's today go back way further than that.

That's what I did in compiling my list from 1940-1989.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

I'm working on a project - though a few other things have kind of become more important right now - whereby I will be creating some sort of replicatable, objective rating of stakes races prior to 1973, most probably largely based on margins and caliber of beaten competition. I expect to do both single-race ratings (since any given running of a race may be much better or worse than typical for the event) along with a gradually evolving overall rating.

Still, there are certain events that one would expect to be G1-equivalent without the bother of comparing data of tens of thousands of starters and thousands of individual stakes events...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig2

barbaro won the derby, remember? over a tremendous field, many times said the BEST in YEARS. and by a huge margin. believe me, his accomplishments shine, and wont be forgotten--and a lot of voters believe he'd still be tops had he not gotten hurt. an injury knocked him out for the year, it won't cost him much since it was out of everyones control.

this crop is amazing, soon as a 3 yo gets attention, another comes along to knock him off the top--or try.
discreet cat reminded everyone today of his presence and his talent. amazing isn't it that bernardini gets so much hype, while still 'behind the times' regarding running at the classic distance.

Can you clarify what you mean by Bernardini being "behind the times"? Bernardini has earned the hype by his performances......the hype is not unjustified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Barbaro will be named 3 year old champ....he deserves it and will win it. I'm not going through this debate again, we have it every year. The only question left is who will be HOY? I think it's between two horses...Barbaro and Lava Man. Certainly if the Travers goes as many expect and a BCC win follows, a third name will be dropped in the hat, but a loss in either race and it's over!

any kind of upset of volponi proportions in the bcc, and barbaro will most likely get HOY as well as top 3 yo. his reputation, as well as his incredible strength that we've seen exhibited since the preakness will garner a ton of votes. that horse was the goods, and everyone knows it. the fact he couldn't finish out the year imo won't harm him come eclipse time. his courageous fight, his will to live, have gotten him more praise than even his overwhelming derby victory. that horse is one of a kind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

Can you clarify what you mean by Bernardini being "behind the times"? Bernardini has earned the hype by his performances......the hype is not unjustified.

behind the times regarding running the classic 10f distance. bluegrass cat has run at 10 and 12, discreet cat has a win at the same distance. august is almost over, and bernardini is finally making the attempt.

'......the hype is not unjustified'

the excitement generated by this horse isn't...some of the hype is!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

, discreet cat has a win at the same distance.(10f) .

When and where? The PPs for today's race show a 6f maiden at Saratoga, a 1 mile Allowance in Dubai, and a 9f G2 stakes in Dubai. No 10f races yet, and with Forestry for his sire, one has to wonder whether he will be as dominating around two turns.

didnt he win the uae derby? that's 10f.

ohhh, i see....they've shortened the race. missed that. USED to be 10f.