I did not really mind the ride...

Brown believes horses are faster then they were. He thinks surfaces are much slower then then used to be. I didnt follow the sport to closely in the past to know cushion size at Belmont in 1973 vs. 2010?

Is everyone else still laughing or did they not notice that he said this?







(Hi Kev! :D )

I noticed, but decided to give him a pass. You know those southerners are really struggling with the snow/cold weather. I just figured he got some frost bite on the brain. But it definitely didn't go unoticed.

Not saying he did not run fast,but a-7.5 I don't think so.

The stud market has fallen faster than a boulder off a cliff. He's also a homebred and I have to think the ego within Edward Evans wants to show the racing community that he bred a champion. Met Mile, some other Grade 1's in NY such as the Whitney, Woodward,JCGC, and the Breeder Cup Classic would make Quality Road a sure thing for HOY and if he runs figs comparable to what he did in the Donn Mr. Evan's will have a valuable stud on his farm.

Cushion depth is discussed in the essay 'Are Racehorses Getting Faster?' at thorograph.com.

Perhaps he was trying to point out the absurdity of something someone else said.

:p Hi Sighty Poo

Are Racehorses Getting Faster, Pt. I


Are Racehorses Getting Faster, Pt. II


Are Racehorses Getting Faster, Pt. III

Here is the link to Alan Benewitz' post with Attachment to the post-Donn sheets. The reason Jerry is adamant about the fig's accuracy is because with the beaten lengths equation involved, the rest of the field behind Quality Road fell into line seemingly with perfection. Understand that weight plays into Brown's methodology and Quality Road was giving weight to the entire field.

It's truly a wonder how fast the breed is improving.

--Dunbar

right on, funny how these horses can only race like 6 or 7 times a year. have to retire because they are not sound but somehow they are faster....lol. remember when horses could win at 5 furlongs or a mile and half? lets see who can now? they run a mile and a half once in a career, belmont day. and most can't make that!(they avoid ten furlongs half the time!) this is why i need these speed figure "gurus"(i need the money...lol). yes, QR ran a fast race, he is freaky fast but hes yet to show he can carry it or string big races together at a distance. he probably is the fastest dirt horse racing right now. but, the fastest "joe blow" speed figure makes him a world beater now? (compared to history) ok, quality road is better than forego, war admiral and seabiscuit.....there are you happy now?
by the way forego was the champion sprinter the same year he won the jockey gold cup (1974). he ran 12 times(1974)....yeah, they are way faster and fitter today......lol........lol. lets wait and see if this horse makes it through the season before all the "greatest" talk.....PLEASE(by the way the horse of the year can't even make it to the races after 8 weeks of training, these horses are gems of consistancy today..c'mon!)

Are you always this uncomprehending or are you just especially retarded today?

what do you really think these horses are better today. they are bred for speed they lack endurance, stamina and durability. i saw your stupid pitcher comparison. yeah, they pitch less but they don't need to rest for weeks and months before playing. the careers are as long or longer. if i'm retarded you have your head in the sand. these horses are built to last for what, less than 20 races.....maybe?

Nobody said "better"--you are debating voices in your head. "Better" is a concept than can include all kinds of things: speed, stamina, versatility, etc. To my mind, and apparently to what passes for yours, they are not demonstrably "better" today.

"Faster", however, means a single attribute, speed, which the sheets purport to measure. As I said in the other thread, I am an agnostic on the subject. But it certainly would not surprise me in the least to find horses generally faster now. It is an absolute certainty that the other frequently raced species, man, is faster now at all distances. Improved training, diet, drugs (legal and otherwise), medicine--it all plays into it. And those factors may work for thoroughbreds as well. Further, in the past 40 years or so t'breds have been explicitly bred for precocious speed. I can't really say we've done that for humans, although having athletes from Africa, etc. participating--which they didn't do in the distant past--may have much of the same effect.

they do rest a heck of a lot more than they used to. Now a days, pitching on 3 days rest is a major deal.

Honestly I think it has to do with how inbred the race horses are now. I swear some people breed two horses and keep their fingers crossed.. "either I'll get one with 5 legs and 2 heads or an extremely fast BC Sprint champion"

I guess there is some validity to Brown's theory. I don't subscribe and think a horse like Quality Road would be trounced by the horses we have come to know as the fastest the sport has produced. You want Holy Bull, Zapper, Slew, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Bid etc or Quality Road? Plus the Pletcher effect is currently en vogue, all the TAP's are striking a poss in the winners circle. We have seen this act before!

I think a horses ability should be judged in relation to how horses at every other commonly run class level are performing.

If you believe that Quality Road's Donn was the single fastest performance ever run by a race horse ... you must also believe that claiming horses of today would routinely trounce great horses like Easy Goer and Sunday Silence with ease.

Are the Thorograph numbers that whack? Obviously the speed figures aren't, but they don't purport to tell the story these numbers claim. Also, what about the Ragozin sheets--do they tell anything close to the same story as Thorograph?

PS: I have never used a sheet in my life, except to sleep.