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-   -   You call it: RA VS other great 3yo fillies (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31369)

Gander 08-25-2009 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985
I think they needed to go Travers, I am not doubting her she is def. great, but I beleive QR is as good if not better.
QR is a nice horse and you arent alone thinking he is really great, but to say Rachel has to beat Quality Road is kind of nutty.
QR to date has won one significant race. It was unfortunate he got hurt (twice) and he is really talented but he has so much yet to prove. Saturday's travers would be a good start as the field is loaded. I would say given the time and races hes missed, this is a must win for QR.

Slewbopper 08-25-2009 01:15 PM
Hall Of Famer Bold N Determined with a career record of 20-16-3-0 is probably the most forgotten great filly of the last 30 years. She had a fabulous 3 yo season with 6 G1 wins and didn't even get an Eclipse, even though she beat the winner Genuine Risk in the G2 Maskette. '80 was a great year for 3 yo fillies. Another very good one was Love Sign who was third in that Maskette. She finished her career with a 23-16-5-2 record with 10 stakes wins, 4 of them G1s. Between Risk, BND and LS their combined career record was 58-42-11-4....57 of 58 ITM

The Indomitable DrugS 08-25-2009 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
To this point, what race would you say is Rachel's "best"?
With all the analytical factors baked in - I think they've all been pretty close to equal going back to her win in the Golden Rod stakes as a 2yo.

I would probably give a slight edge to her performance in the Martha Washington Stakes as the one which I felt was best.

When you consider it was Hal Wiggins off of a layoff .. and there is no way anyone could not have the figure significantly faster than Eight Belles 13+ length romp in that race the prior year .. that was just mind blowing stuff.

I think you've basically just seen the very slight and steady progression of a healthy 3yo horse since that race.

smuthg 08-25-2009 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewbopper
Hall Of Famer Bold N Determined with a career record of 20-16-3-0 is probably the most forgotten great filly of the last 30 years. She had a fabulous 3 yo season with 6 G1 wins and didn't even get an Eclipse, even though she beat the winner Genuine Risk in the G2 Maskette. '80 was a great year for 3 yo fillies. Another very good one was Love Sign who was third in that Maskette. She finished her career with a 23-16-5-2 record with 10 stakes wins, 4 of them G1s. Between Risk, BND and LS their combined career record was 58-42-11-4....57 of 58 ITM
Damn, that's a pretty serious crop of 3YOs...

King Glorious 08-25-2009 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTruth
Those two races were the only major blemishes on her 3yo record. Wins in the Derby, Santa Anita Derby (over Big Cap winner Ruhlman, the useful millionaire Lively One who won the Swaps and Goodwood, and Tejano), and Santa Anita Oaks. The other losses were by a neck to Goodbye Halo in the Las Virgenes, by 2.5 lengths to Risen Star in the Preakness, and the two losses to Personal Ensign. Winning Colors probably ran the best race of any horse in that Preakness; look where Forty Niner finished after racing her into defeat. To put the two losses to PE in perspective: she finished within a length of PE in their only two meetings; the only other horse to come within a length of PE was Collins in the Frizette.
The way I like to judge them is how good they are at their best. I'd take Winning Colors' Kentucky Derby, Preakness, SA Derby, Maskette, and BC Distaff as her top five races from that season and match them against the best five efforts from any 3yo filly. Even though three of those races were loses, it doesn't detract from the effort to me.

philcski 08-25-2009 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
With all the analytical factors baked in - I think they've all been pretty close to equal going back to her win in the Golden Rod stakes as a 2yo.

I would probably give a slight edge to her performance in the Martha Washington Stakes as the one which I felt was best.

When you consider it was Hal Wiggins off of a layoff .. and there is no way anyone could not have the figure significantly faster than Eight Belles 13+ length romp in that race the prior year .. that was just mind blowing stuff.

I think you've basically just seen the very slight and steady progression of a healthy 3yo horse since that race.
I think I'd say the Ky Oaks. Considering it's supposed to be the toughest 3YO restricted filly race of the year, and she won by 20 in hand with a fast time... and she was still with Wiggins.

The Indomitable DrugS 08-25-2009 04:08 PM
The Oaks was her prettiest win anyway.

Thunder Gulch 08-25-2009 04:10 PM
Whatever the competition was on Oaks day, it was the largest margin of victory in the history of a classic race for fillies. Visually, on that stage, in front of a massive crowd, it was simply awe inspiring.

SniperSB23 08-25-2009 04:11 PM
I think it has to be the Preakness or the Haskell. The way she dueled with top class sprinters in both races, put them away, and then held off (and in the Haskell even drew off) the perfect trip horses behind her was amazing.

philcski 08-25-2009 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
The Oaks was her prettiest win anyway.
The Mother Goose, even with only 3 horses, makes my hair stand on end.


Most of all I love the fact that she's sound and we get to see her actually run once a month.

Sightseek 08-25-2009 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
The Oaks was her prettiest win anyway.
Phil is all about looking pretty.

philcski 08-25-2009 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
Phil is all about looking pretty.
:rolleyes:
:D

Diver67 08-25-2009 04:38 PM
Wasn't it just a couple of years ago people were talking up Rags to Riches as one for the ages? Unfortunately her career went south and ended, but her SA Oaks, Kentucky Oaks, and Belmont made a superb trio. And beating Curlin outranks beating MTB, I think.

reese 08-25-2009 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver67
Wasn't it just a couple of years ago people were talking up Rags to Riches as one for the ages? Unfortunately her career went south and ended, but her SA Oaks, Kentucky Oaks, and Belmont made a superb trio. And beating Curlin outranks beating MTB, I think.
I agree there. RTR beat the "all-world race horse" ...no easy feat.

The Indomitable DrugS 08-25-2009 06:38 PM
And Any Given Saturday thrashed him in the next race.

RockHardTen1985 08-25-2009 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
And Any Given Saturday thrashed him in the next race.

He was such a plodder.

reese 08-25-2009 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
And Any Given Saturday thrashed him in the next race.
So what?:zz:

Onion beat Secretariat.

alysheba4 08-26-2009 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
She was 4 for 10 as a 3yo... it's a case where record hurts her. She totally fell apart after the Preakness.

I think RA will have the best looking 3yo season after all is said and done.

The problem is - she has yet to face easily the 2nd best 3yo filly (Careless Jewel) ... she hasn't faced either QR or IWR .. and they are the only 3yo males this year who aren't goats. The older males suck .. and the Zenyatta match up might not ever happen.

It's all through no fault of her own .. but it's pretty remarkable that a filly like Melair .. who's career lasted all of 10 weeks .. probably saw both better female and male competition than RA ever has.
.......i was there, she was a freak. i agree about her competiton......however,i with winning colors, what she did will never be done again, win the santa anita derby in HUGE fashion and come right back to win the derby against horses that make this years derby crop look like 10 claimers.

Slewbopper 08-26-2009 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alysheba4
.......i was there, she was a freak. i agree about her competiton......however,i with winning colors, what she did will never be done again, win the santa anita derby in HUGE fashion and come right back to win the derby against horses that make this years derby crop look like 10 claimers.
And if Dwayne didn't have his huge ego, he would not have run in the Belmont and would have probably beaten Personal Ensign twice. Personal Ensign is the most overrated horse in the HOF

The Indomitable DrugS 08-26-2009 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewbopper
Personal Ensign is the most overrated horse in the HOF
Even including Man O' War?


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